Alternatives to Halcyon ?

[RichLockyer]

have to twist one or the other to insert the hose. Can the bungee loop just ride around the webbing above the d ring or does that get too sloppy?

It rides around the webbing, but captured by the tri-glide used to secure the D-ring... IOTW, mount the D-rings, then the last thing you do to the rig is slip the webbing back through the tri-glide as if you were going to move the D-ring, but instead, tie the bungee around the webbing just above the D-ring, then slip the tri-glide back into place.

Does the bungee cord around the inflator hose require 2 hands to remove the hose for venting or do you get adept at one hand removal/insertion? Is SOP to use the back vent for most venting?

Rear vent is preferred, but in any event, the LPI is never removed from the bungee. My GUE instructors recommended connecting the LPI hose on the OUTSIDE of the bungee, which effectively captures it and makes it impossible for it to slip out, accidentally or intentionally.

Your config seems to address all my issues except the questions above.

Check out the equipment library at www.baue.org
Specifically, http://www.baue.org/images/galleries/view_album.php?set_albumName=equipment&page=1
And look at the middle photo in the second row... shows the bungee pretty clearly.

 

[RichLockyer]

Next question: Can you get all the air out of the wing in this position if only one side of the wing has the vent?

For single tank diving, the Pioneer, Eclipse, Oxycheq, and other circular wings are pretty good about dumping completely from the rear vent without needing to roll.
Non-circular wings like the DR Trek and Rec may need some help, but what usually happens is that in rotating your shoulder to reach for the dump, you generally rotate your body enough to transfer the gas. If you are too "head high" then it wouldn't matter, as the gas would move up toward the corrugated hose.

 

[bwerb]

Back to the original question...I think it needs to be said...walk before you run...

I think your budgeting and idea of "buying it all at once" is a tad misguided. From your profile you indicate that you are not yet certified (and can't wait to start lessons). Reading between the lines in your post, you appear to have been checking out two different shops, but haven't actually started diving with either.

Here's why I think you need to hit the brakes and proceed to "step one". If you want to dive DIR, it is a journey of many steps. Step one is getting yourself certified. Step two is taking a DIRF...step three is passing DIRF , then you dive a whole huge amount while (my personal recommendation here) taking a Rescue course (I believe that although not part of the DIR cert process, every diver should be trained up to "Rescue"). Then, and only then, once you are well on your way to really feeling comfortable and are competent in the water, should you start looking towards doubles and technical diving.

This is why the "all at once" is a bit much...you don't even know if you are going to like it and want to continue. If you are diving dry, perhaps you will find that this cold water thing really isn't for me. Perhaps you will find that you don't get to dive nearly as much as you'd like etc. Until you get in the water, you won't know. This process is likely to take a couple years minimum.

So...if you are sure you want to contine and start down the DIR road. I'd recommend going with your local Halcyon shop. Here's why. If you have not yet been certified, you really don't know enough to try to "be DIR" while swimming upstream at another shop. I commend you on wanting to build the right foundation but you need to be realistic that it isn't cert today, doubles tommorow (unless you are PADI...)

Buy a good foundation set-up. Single tank wing with backplate. Single regulator. Bottom Timer. Tanks can be rented if you are diving singles. Splurge for a nice HID cannister if you want. Personally, I'd rent a drysuit for certification training (if the shop will let you do OW in a drysuit) until I was sure I wanted to continue, then move on from there.

I think if you really get into it and enjoy it, you will still have a nice piece of time between your initial cert and diving doubles. During this time, you will not have had a pile of gear sitting in your closet you bought two years ago but haven't needed yet...and I'm sure like most of us...that your budget and available funds situation will have changed as well.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[The Kraken]

Yep, back to the original question . . .

Answer: Dive Rite Express (diveriteexpress.com)

 

[skipperbrown]

I apologize for getting the thread off topic. Back to bizness:

I did a search last nite and found that a complete Halcyon MC system: backplate (SS or AL, same price), pioneer wings 27, harness, and the little smb bag can be had for about $485. I think this is a 'good to go package', ie, includes single tank bands, inflator hose, nuts/bolts, etc., just add tank/reg and mix w/ water.

By contrast, a dive rite wing 30 is $235, bp $105 (ss), harness $30, sta $70 (includes tank bands), and add a pouch for say $40. Total $480 not including nuts/bolts.

The OMS wing 30 is $240, bp/harness $100 (AL), sta $85, and smb pouch $45 (included in H setup). Total $470 not including mounting hardware (Leisure Pro).

The Oxycheq wing 30 is $251 (sig series), bp $130 (ss), sta $59, bands $60, figure a pouch at $40. Total $540 not including nuts/bolts.

Since Halcyon is considered top shelf goods, is it the 'best buy'? I think you can find a cheaper backplate and save $50 or so on that component, but you still need the wing, sta (on most bp), and harness. I guess I have to give the nod to Halcyon.

Where is the 'cheaper alternative'? Am I missing something?

 

[The Kraken]

I've yet to see ANY empirical data that suggests that one specific brand of BP or wing is "better" than another.

Could someone direct to such information?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Since Halcyon is considered top shelf goods

... by whom?

From my experience, Halcyon isn't any higher quality than either Oxycheq or Dive Rite ... it's simply a matter of personal preference.

Oh, and FWIW - my FredT and Deep Sea Supply backplates are (IMO) higher quality than anything Halcyon makes.

Where is the 'cheaper alternative'? Am I missing something?

Well now ... you're comparing a Halcyon package to a collection of components from the other brands. What you're "missing" is that you can typically save money by purchasing a system over purchasing individual components.

FWIW - I've never paid the prices you quoted for DR or Oxycheq components ... and I've owned a bit of each.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[alemaozinho]

I am torn. I prefer the BP/W setup and all that goes with it. But the problem is if I compare the Halcyon setup from one of my local dive shops vs a non "DIR" setup of another, the price differential is huge. I have to stay within my budget. I anticipate doubles in the future, so the price of future expansion has to figure into my budget. I don't want to start with a basic DIR rig and expect to grow from there. I will be doing this all in one huge transaction. So controlling the price is important. The ceiling on my budget for all equipment is about $5000 'ish. That includes a drysuit.

My DIR lds is all Halcyon, guages, knives, lights, wings etc. The other LDS is Zeagle Ranger, React Pro, different fins. Perhaps its the location difference between the two and the customer base that they serve. The DIR lds is located in an upper crust town and the other is a regular town.

I know that DIR is not necessarily Halcyon, but this LDS is the only one in the area that supports the DIR philosophy.

What other manufacturers offer DIR style equipment for less than Halcyon? Halcyon has the "name" but who else has the same quality, or better? Also, how do local DIR lds's react to coming in for education -n- other stuff when you haven't bought the majority of equipment from them. I am not interested in "grey" market merchandise.

Thanks
John

you could buy a scr Rebreather for that money .Peace

 

[skipperbrown]

Ok, this is the info I was looking for. Deep Sea Supply has a 30lb wing package for $415 http://www.deepseasupply.com/page12.html . I couldn't find a DSS pouch so add about $40 and we are around $455 and back in the range of the other manufacturers.

A quick search for Fred T bp turned up a lot of discussion but no vendors. How much does he sell his bp's for?

As far as Halcyon being considered high quality, that is my conclusion drawn from considerable reading on the various boards. I confess I haven't used any of their equipment or oms or oxycheck (I do have some dive rite equip) and am using your help and others to determine what might work best for me.

Do you consider Halcyon to be an 'also ran' and, if so, who are the top shelf guys?

Thanks, Mark

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As far as Halcyon being considered high quality, that is my conclusion drawn from considerable reading on the various boards. I confess I haven't used any of their equipment or oms or oxycheck (I do have some dive rite equip) and am using your help and others to determine what might work best for me.

Do you consider Halcyon to be an 'also ran' and, if so, who are the top shelf guys?

Thanks, Mark

Halcyon is one of the quality brands out there, certainly ... my read on what you said is that they are the definitive name in quality ... and that's really not the case because those other brands compare very favorably with Halcyon, often at a better price.

But what you also did was compare Halcyon's package price to those other vendor's component price, and that's a bit misleading. A real comparison would be to compare component prices to component prices, and package prices to package prices. Unless your mind's made up on the Halcyon rig, then I suggest that you look a little closer at the kind of deals you can get from Oxycheq and/or Dive Rite.

To answer your question about FredT, he's a member of ScubaBoard. Send him a PM ... his prices on BP/harness systems is very competitive, and his workmanship is top-notch. He doesn't have a Web site, but he does respond to PM's and e-mail.

As far as quality goes, you won't be sorry owning any of those vendors' gear. They are all high-quality.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)