Alternatives to Halcyon ?

[alemaozinho]

I am torn. I prefer the BP/W setup and all that goes with it. But the problem is if I compare the Halcyon setup from one of my local dive shops vs a non "DIR" setup of another, the price differential is huge. I have to stay within my budget. I anticipate doubles in the future, so the price of future expansion has to figure into my budget. I don't want to start with a basic DIR rig and expect to grow from there. I will be doing this all in one huge transaction. So controlling the price is important. The ceiling on my budget for all equipment is about $5000 'ish. That includes a drysuit.

My DIR lds is all Halcyon, guages, knives, lights, wings etc. The other LDS is Zeagle Ranger, React Pro, different fins. Perhaps its the location difference between the two and the customer base that they serve. The DIR lds is located in an upper crust town and the other is a regular town.

I know that DIR is not necessarily Halcyon, but this LDS is the only one in the area that supports the DIR philosophy.

What other manufacturers offer DIR style equipment for less than Halcyon? Halcyon has the "name" but who else has the same quality, or better? Also, how do local DIR lds's react to coming in for education -n- other stuff when you haven't bought the majority of equipment from them. I am not interested in "grey" market merchandise.

Thanks
John

hi,check out the OXYCHECK website,outstanding quality,Peace

 

[Dryglove]

I'll tell you this, there'd be a lot fewer Trident Display divers / human Christmas Trees (sorry Cetacea) if more people asked why add something....

K

Lol...and i was so proud of my knighthawk with a lower right dump, upper right dump, deflator dump, and pull dump. I had more ways to dump than i could possibly imagine. Although i am not DIR but i really like the simplicity and functionality of the BP/wing set up. No more wasting time underwater trying to decide which string or hose i want to pull since i only have two ways to dump now

 

[RichLockyer]

No more wasting time underwater trying to decide which string or hose i want to pull since i only have two ways to dump now

So now on the drysuit issue... I've got the shoulder dump and the p-valve, but what about for those really long dives after too much salsa? :icon10:

Seriously though.... back to Orcatwiggy's original post:

It's going to be tough to do it all in one purchase, and do it for $5000, if it's going to be done in completion. I mean, a cave-cut drysuit and scooter totally blow the budget. Are we talking tanks too? It's a grand for a pair of tanks and a manifold.

You can get a TLS350 cave cut SP suit for about 2 grand.. add another $400 or so for a signature series, which gets you a pair of pockets, kneepads, and a hood. Another $200 and they'll include an EE P-valve.

Let's call the suit $2500... that's half the budget.

Stainless BP and STA would be about $200. I prefer the FredT plates. It's about $30 in webbing and misc hardware (tri-glides, D-rings, buckle)
A single-tank Oxychec 45 would run about $300... similar to a Pioneer. Call the basic BCD setup $550... down to $1950

XL-Jetfins, a touch under $100. Spring straps, DIY for about $30, or you can spend from $40-$90 on commercial units. Call it $200 and you'll be safe. $1750

Mask, gloves... another $75. $1675.

Pair of Apeks DS4's, $300.
Pair of Apeks ATX50 2nds, maybe $400.
$75 worth of hoses... $900

Uwatech brass SPG, $120
Uwatech bottom timer, $150... or Suunto Vyper, $400.
Vyper download kit from Jamei, $45.... $335 left

You'll still want a DSMB... you can get a yellow OC bag on Ebay for under $40.
A couple of spools will run you about $70.

Two Scout or Big Johnson backup lights will run you in the ballpark of $150.

We've only got about $100 left, and you still need a canister light. That's going to set you back about $1400 for a Helios9 18w HID

We still haven't touched on tanks, bands, manifold ($1000), stage/deco bottles ($150), stage/deco regulators ($250), each with an SPG ($100). Barebones minimum for a used scooter will run you $1200, and a new Gavin will be closer to 4 grand.


You can shop around and find some deals, as well as use Ebay extensively and save a bit more, but if you're limiting yourself to the LDS, you're going to be paying full retail, so figure you can add about 10% to many of the prices I gave above (which are ballparks anyways).

Nope... if the budget is $5000, it would be a tough call as to where to start.
Before considering a "tech BC" or back-inflate BC, keep in mind that your big single-item costs are in the drysuit and regulator set. Also, I used the Vyper in the reduction on totals. The bottom timer will do the job, but lacks download capability. Going with the cheapest back-inflate BC... the Aqua Lung Malibu, is only going to save you $200, and will be totally unsuitable for any type of tech diving, as well as precluded from GUE classes.

For a single tank recreational rig only, you can trim $150 by going with a single DS4, and you can save another $50 or so by going with an ATX40 for your backup 2nd.
That's still not going to be enough to get the canister light, not to mention any GUE training.

Be careful and don't make the same mistakes that many of us did. Buy and read the DIR-F book carefully, and also refer to the "Anatomy of a Technical Diver" section on GUE's site.

 

[Dryglove]

So now on the drysuit issue... I've got the shoulder dump and the p-valve, but what about for those really long dives after too much salsa? :icon10:

Diapers??? or possibly a butt valve to vent self produced expanding gas among other things :xyxnervou :headscrat

By the way....I heard through the grapevine a well known company will be releasing their version shortly. I am sure others will be quick to follow.

 

[Mo2vation]

Lol...and i was so proud of my knighthawk with a lower right dump, upper right dump, deflator dump, and pull dump. I had more ways to dump than i could possibly imagine. Although i am not DIR but i really like the simplicity and functionality of the BP/wing set up. No more wasting time underwater trying to decide which string or hose i want to pull since i only have two ways to dump now

I hear ya. last stop for me before BP/W was my Fluffy Black Diamond. What does that thing have, like 6 or 7 Drings and a couple of Fastex buckles?

Man - how much stuff do you need to hang on a BC? That thing had so much padding I felt like one of those dudes the doberman attacks - all Michelin man and stuff.

K

 

[crosing]

I'm taking the DIR-F course with Bob Sherwood the weekend after labor day.

I'm going on record as a big fan of Halcyon gear, I love it!

 

[detroit diver]

Forget the stage bottes/accessories for now.

Buy an Ultraflex Pro drysuit from FifthD @around $1500.oo or so, and use the extra $1000 for the tanks/bands/manifold. (you can actually find a pair of 104's for under$750.00 if you look hard).

So now on the drysuit issue... I've got the shoulder dump and the p-valve, but what about for those really long dives after too much salsa? :icon10:

Seriously though.... back to Orcatwiggy's original post:

It's going to be tough to do it all in one purchase, and do it for $5000, if it's going to be done in completion. I mean, a cave-cut drysuit and scooter totally blow the budget. Are we talking tanks too? It's a grand for a pair of tanks and a manifold.

You can get a TLS350 cave cut SP suit for about 2 grand.. add another $400 or so for a signature series, which gets you a pair of pockets, kneepads, and a hood. Another $200 and they'll include an EE P-valve.

Let's call the suit $2500... that's half the budget.

Stainless BP and STA would be about $200. I prefer the FredT plates. It's about $30 in webbing and misc hardware (tri-glides, D-rings, buckle)
A single-tank Oxychec 45 would run about $300... similar to a Pioneer. Call the basic BCD setup $550... down to $1950

XL-Jetfins, a touch under $100. Spring straps, DIY for about $30, or you can spend from $40-$90 on commercial units. Call it $200 and you'll be safe. $1750

Mask, gloves... another $75. $1675.

Pair of Apeks DS4's, $300.
Pair of Apeks ATX50 2nds, maybe $400.
$75 worth of hoses... $900

Uwatech brass SPG, $120
Uwatech bottom timer, $150... or Suunto Vyper, $400.
Vyper download kit from Jamei, $45.... $335 left

You'll still want a DSMB... you can get a yellow OC bag on Ebay for under $40.
A couple of spools will run you about $70.

Two Scout or Big Johnson backup lights will run you in the ballpark of $150.

We've only got about $100 left, and you still need a canister light. That's going to set you back about $1400 for a Helios9 18w HID

We still haven't touched on tanks, bands, manifold ($1000), stage/deco bottles ($150), stage/deco regulators ($250), each with an SPG ($100). Barebones minimum for a used scooter will run you $1200, and a new Gavin will be closer to 4 grand.


You can shop around and find some deals, as well as use Ebay extensively and save a bit more, but if you're limiting yourself to the LDS, you're going to be paying full retail, so figure you can add about 10% to many of the prices I gave above (which are ballparks anyways).

Nope... if the budget is $5000, it would be a tough call as to where to start.
Before considering a "tech BC" or back-inflate BC, keep in mind that your big single-item costs are in the drysuit and regulator set. Also, I used the Vyper in the reduction on totals. The bottom timer will do the job, but lacks download capability. Going with the cheapest back-inflate BC... the Aqua Lung Malibu, is only going to save you $200, and will be totally unsuitable for any type of tech diving, as well as precluded from GUE classes.

For a single tank recreational rig only, you can trim $150 by going with a single DS4, and you can save another $50 or so by going with an ATX40 for your backup 2nd.
That's still not going to be enough to get the canister light, not to mention any GUE training.

Be careful and don't make the same mistakes that many of us did. Buy and read the DIR-F book carefully, and also refer to the "Anatomy of a Technical Diver" section on GUE's site.

 

[RichLockyer]

Forget the stage bottes/accessories for now.

Buy an Ultraflex Pro drysuit from FifthD @around $1500.oo or so, and use the extra $1000 for the tanks/bands/manifold. (you can actually find a pair of 104's for under$750.00 if you look hard).

Or the canister light.
I would still consider the doubles as optional at this point. Tanks CAN be rented (though I wouldn't want to).

 

[VTernovski]

Excellent.

Can we all say it together: DIR (inasmuch as its not about the gear, I'm using the gear context for reference) is not about the brand of the gear, its about the type and configuration.

WG you're rockin.

K

PS: I got the hat too, but not because "its pretty...." Uh, not that there's anything wrong with that.

I agree, but like GI said, everything else is a risk. I had tried all types of DIR-like gear before (Oxycheq wings, OMS harnesses, Abyss backup lights, etc) and slowly ended up with Halcyon gear instead, well, becasue it prooved to be the best. and I am sticking to what works for me.

 

[VTernovski]

I'm taking the DIR-F course with Bob Sherwood the weekend after labor day.

I'm going on record as a big fan of Halcyon gear, I love it!

cool, see you there! btw, Bob is great with getting us any types of gear we want. we just ask him for stuff, and he hand delivers it to us next time we see him at Dutch. Which is freaking great!!