Almost to deco... your first time?

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had my mask yanked off my face in midwater so many times I can't count them.

Last time I had it intentionally 'yanked' off was in 1971 in O/W training.....things were done quite different in those early days of training, including gas valves being shut down without you knowing. Does nothing to improving your diving skills...there are better ways to handling these skill developments IMO.
 
Training is fine but "hazing" really has no place other than perhaps to establish some sort of macho pecking order and I'd rather not convey the impression that all tech instructors operate that way.

Sorry; perhaps the word "hazing" was the wrong one to choose. I simply wanted to convey that the instruction I've had has focused on raising the stress level until one has trouble coping with it, both as a way of extending one's limits, and as a cautionary lesson in the fact that, no matter how good you may think you are, there is a point where your skills degrade.

GUE does not remove students' masks. This was not a GUE instructor. And I am very glad he did what he did, because one of my very biggest challenges in diving from the beginning until now (and it's still not totally solved) is that I don't cope well with limited or absent visual references. This instructor saw that early on, and therefore repeatedly put me into situations where I had to try to cope with those conditions, and I think it was a very good thing to do to me.

I've said before that I don't think it's a really good idea to dive with a known hole in your defences, and that certainly applies in spades to technical or overhead diving. If you know you have an issue, as I have with midwater and a friend has with flooded masks, work on it until it's solved, and then periodically refresh the work so that the weakness doesn't sneak back up on you.
 
Does GUE actually do this?

With TDI your mask is "requested" rather than "taken"

Just curious.

In 2004 I did 'loose' my mask, one fin and lost gas from my BC while my buddy was OOA and bubbles appeared at my manifold.... all this while we were supposed to stop and shoot a bag. I don't know if GUE changed their practices, but in 04 'loosing' things was definitely part of training.
 
In 2004 I did 'loose' my mask, one fin and lost gas from my BC while my buddy was OOA and bubbles appeared at my manifold.... all this while we were supposed to stop and shoot a bag. I don't know if GUE changed their practices, but in 04 'loosing' things was definitely part of training.

What did you come away with from this task loaded chain of events and gear failures?
 
So what did you come away with from this task loaded chain of events and gear failures?

The first time I 'died'................:D Later on, we managed and to be honest, it did set things up for subsequent training and being able to prioritize issues and address them methodically.
 
The first time I 'died'................:D Later on, we managed and to be honest, it did set things up for subsequent training and being able to prioritize issues and address them methodically.

Least you gained the perspective your instructor was trying to get across.....I just loved task loading drills in my training....I still don't like swimming one fin only--lol!
 
Losing fins is right up there for the all time winner of the award for things that get simulated but almost never happen in the real world - especially with spring straps.

Losing a mask is oddly enough not the worst thing you can inflict on a student visibility wise. Assuming the student does not have issues breathing without a mask, removing the mask really only limits visibility a bit - it still leaves a good degree of vision. On the other hand, putting a piece of tin foil over the mask turns the lights out as well and leaves them in zero viz and that is both more challenging and makes replicating a lost light/zero viz situation possible in open water.

It does not however appear to have caught on outside PSD training.

I do agree that racheting up the task loading is important - both as a training tool in terms of getting divers to prioritize and problem solve and as a diagnostic tool to see if the diver has the minimum psychological and mental attributes they need to pass the class. But once that is achieved or established, too much of it can just detract from the other experiential aspects of the dive and it can be used as a crutch by instructors who either have little else to teach or are not able to put together challenging training without simulating failures to death.
 
I actually lost a fin in Jackson Blue last week . . . Using borrowed fins without spring straps, because my ordered fins hadn't come in before we left on the trip, and a strap came loose from the attachment, despite being taped down. It was a HORRIBLE experience, because I'd never tried to swim with one fin before, especially in doubles, and I lost my balance and ended up hanging onto a rock until my buddy could reassemble the fin and put it back on, and all I could think was, "If this had happened in a silty area of the cave, we'd all be in a world of hurt." As a consequence, I ended that dive practicing swimming with one fin in the open water, and it's something I'll practice regularly for a while until I'm really solid with it.

Frankly, Murphy is a diver, and I don't think much of anything is so far-fetched that it could never possibly happen :)
 
Awesome, so this has turned out to be quite the forum of "train for these worst case scenarios." This is what I was looking for, even if I didn't know how to ask for it =P

So... the bottom line, I keep hearing, is the NEED to deal with it under water. Indeed, deco IS a cave... although you "can" escape to the surface, you're betting on being minutes away from a chamber. I will take this attitude to heart as I begin this season. (Perhaps, instead of "what was your almost-tech," I should have asked, "What would you advise a 'one-season away from tech to practice and internalize'?)

I certainly agree with all of y'alls warnings about too much, too fast. I'm only considering tech as my buddies and I are starting to consider some local chartered dives ~100ft mark. It just gets me thinking... "what happens when you surpass your NDL?" I guess thats my 'theme' for this coming season... being prepared for the worst. Again, I've been "trained" for that (basically, "don't go past your NDL!" and "make sure you do a safety stop!") and I've done beyond that depth, but... my lack of knowlege bothers me.

Thanks again, for the replies. Very informative! (especially mid-water... buoyancy w/o visual reference... [I presume you can watch you gauge?]... sounds quite difficult).
-Brett
 
Ther fact that you realize there's alot you don't know is a good sign. The problem begins when people don't have a clue as to how much they don't know and find out the hard way. If you are serious about going tech I'd advise joining the deco stop and just lurk for awhile. Read and let it sink in. Going to tech is when you really start to see that while this is fun, exciting, safe, an adventure, you'll meet new people, go new places, seee knew things, yada, yada, yada- if you dive outside your training and experience and in some cases equipment this sport WILL kill you in a heartbeat. The agencies don't like us to teach that but it's true. Next check around to find a good tech oriented shop and instructor. Again TDS is your friend here. You'll get no BS over there.

Once you find one ask lots of questions then ask some more. Next open the wallet wide. If you're not willing or able to make the gear switches and adjustments your instructor requires he/she may not let you even begin the class. Some may let you start in "semi-tech" configurations (h valves- console 1st couple dives-jacket bc etc) I don't recommend it. You're gonna switch anyway why try to half ass the beginning. Buy a BPW now and start diving it. Even if you get a singles wing to start you can always buy another wing for doubles and use the singles for traveling. Again some don't want to buy two wings. It's too much money they say. These don't need to be doing tech. I have one BPW for singles and one for doubles. When you really start getting into it those are a drop in the bucket.

Next get your buoyancy down starting as soon as possible. Do everything in a horizontal position. Ascents, descents, mask drills, air share, etc. try the latter two while hover horizontal 2 feet above the bottom or platform. You should not change depth more than a foot or so. Next start doing them in midwater with no visual reference and again your depth should not vary more than 2-3 ft to start. I just got back from bonaire and diving the reefs and walls in that clear water was a good place to practice holding depths while swimming and not using my comp. I saw many people who were just swimming along and suddenly finding themselves 10,20, 30 or more feet deeper than they intended. Learn to use what's available to you. I practiced doing it while not looking at the wall and instead looking out into blue water or getting away from the reef and just looking down into the abyss where there was no bottom visible and the vis was 100 feet plus. I paid attention to my ears and sinuses. swim for a minute the glance at the reef then back out into the blue. Then check the guage. You can go to 80 or 90 from 50 very quickly. But if you pay attention to your body, "wait, I need to equalize, add air to the wing, feel like I'm sinking, etc" you probably are changing depth more than you want. By midweek I found myself comfortable with swimming to the boat well away from the reef and going along for up to 20 minutes and not needing to do more than glance at my depth for more than 2 or 3 times and finding I could maintain my depth within a few feet.

Most of all while it's alot of fun tech is not ow or aow. Things can go from good to deep doodoo very fast. Know your gear. Know it intimately. Know it blind. And most of all know that it can fail. If it's not properly serviced or cared for and sometimes even if it is. This is why you need to get used to having 2 or 3 of everything. Masks, regs, guages, cutting tools, lights, etc. See opening wallet paragraph. Have fun.
 

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