almost died

[Ayisha]

all of the above. They're tuned to prevent freeflowing which makes them breathe harder and won't deliver air well at depth. Not a good thing for an already stressed recretional diver. A tech I know who works on them, says they're of poor quality. I trust his word as he's a master instructor, cave instructor and equipment tech.

Anytime the inflator is used for something other than inflation/deflation is going to be problematic for an already stressed diver. Make sense?

Yep. And NOT second nature. Most of us were not trained with a secondary reg on the inflator/deflator hose. So unless you practice with it, it will not be second nature to you. It will most likely also not be second nature to a buddy (hopefully you will now always have one until you are READY to go solo). So I hope that when you and your buddy check each other, you explain to him what would happen in the case of an out of air emergency - you don't have an octo that he can grab, he'd have to take your primary.

This type of secondary octopus also involves task loading. You have to make two reg exchanges instead of one in an out of air situation that is presumably already stressful. The donor has to also switch from the primary reg to the secondary reg, instead of just one reg exchange by the recipient. Why add a second reg exchange in an already stressful situation?

 

[lamont]

Not sure a necklace would have either. Sounds to me like panic had set in.

Necklaced backup could have prevented the panic. Somewhere around dive #10 I had my reg kicked out of my mouth and found that even with very little training at that time that going for the necklace and getting the problem solved fast was easy. At that point in time I probably didn't even have very good muscle memory of where the necklace reg was, because I hadn't done very many S-drills -- still it was a very simple solution.

The necklaced reg will never slip out of its holder, it is always where it is immediately available, and you will notice it if it ever free flows around your neck.

 

[markfm]

I did my OW with a Shadow+, have had zero problems, have used it at depth, just for practice. A safe second that doesn't freeflow is a good thing, and as the donor I start in a less stressed state than the OOA, who is sure to like my 100%-for-sure-working primary.

Can't comment on it relative to an Air2.

Any piece of gear needs to be practiced with. My primary is a Sherwood Maximus -- operator tunable for draw; I had to learn how to a) twiddle the dial, and b) use an under-arm hose rather than over-the-shoulder.

I could be wrong, but thought the folks with the 7' hoses are also handing off their primary. (Not looking for a discussion of bungeed relative to Air2 or Shadow+, just pointing out that not everyone donates the safe second)

Reviewing OOA procedures with a buddy should be standard practice, no different from doing weight/release/hand signal/etc. checks.

 

[markfm]

...
The necklaced reg will never slip out of its holder, it is always where it is immediately available, and you will notice it if it ever free flows around your neck.

Safe second on the BCD inflator hose should be a "familiar" gear location, as divers use their inflate/deflate on descent/ascent.

Like everything, practice, practice, practice...

 

[punisher]

NETDOC, YOU'RE RIGHT...not ready for solo...not familiar yet with my setup...and if it had happened whe I was deeper, don't know if you would've seen this post...you're the second who told me that I should be switching regs during my dives to make it easier to remember that its there and working. for now. no for quite some time, no solo and more practicing

DBULMER, I guess my reason for solo if selfishness, too eager to dive even when my buddy can't make it, feeling of "nothing's gonna go wrong". I have nothing against buddies. I seldom solo dive. I have a couple guys I contact when I plan to go and whoever can meet me is my dive buddy. Its called, I really wanna dive but no one can join me...what the hell, solo time. what's it called?wreckless and unprepared?

Ayisha, you're right about the DCI/DCS. haven't studied it enough to memorize the difference. Just concentrated on knowing how to avoid them both and even that I took to the extreme by doing safeties at 5-6 ft. Did you too read wrong and asume that I held my breath while ascending? point well taken on me not being a solo diver.

DIVEMONKEYS, will try that

 

[Ayisha]

Markfm: "Should be". That's the problem. We know that not everyone does it all the time. I'm sure we've all seen that not everyone does a gear check or reviews procedures ALL the time. Basic drills should be just that - BASIC - but we've seen that that's not necessarily true either.

Yes, those folks you mention do hand off their primary - but they're probably not diving with a new diver. A newer, less experienced diver is probably more likely to have an OOA emergency, and is more likely to freak out when they can't find an octopus. Those folks you mention are also more likely to have discussed a multitude of plans, have basic skills intact, and are familiar with their own and their buddies gear. The new diver, on the other hand... I just hope they've been informed.

 

[scubamickey]

all of the above. They're tuned to prevent freeflowing which makes them breathe harder and won't deliver air well at depth. Not a good thing for an already stressed recretional diver. A tech I know who works on them, says they're of poor quality. I trust his word as he's a master instructor, cave instructor and equipment tech.

Anytime the inflator is used for something other than inflation/deflation is going to be problematic for an already stressed diver. Make sense?

Yeah, it does. It's just that I have a SP Air2 and don't find that it's air flow is all that bad. Especially for a short term use. The only thing I dislike about it is that the mouthpiece is actually very large for me and getting it in place isn't as easy as my primary. I've actually been thinking about adding an octopus. I would take the Air2 off but I don't want to pay for a new inflator/deflator connection.

 

[Ayisha]

Ayisha, you're right about the DCI/DCS. haven't studied it enough to memorize the difference. Just concentrated on knowing how to avoid them both and even that I took to the extreme by doing safeties at 5-6 ft. Did you too read wrong and asume that I held my breath while ascending? point well taken on me not being a solo diver.

Nope. I never mentioned holding your breath while ascending. I simply mentioned holding your breath when it happened and then the rapid ascent that you described.

Even if you are exhaling, it is still possible to have a lung overexpansion injury, but as we said, not likely in your situation. If the lungs are expanding faster than the air is being released, and there is nowhere for the air to go, you can have a lung overexpansion injury. So if you are having an extremely rapid ascent, and exhaling only slightly, it is possible. If you have asthma or shortness of breath, this becomes a real issue. So don't kid yourself. Exhaling during a rapid ascent greatly decreases your chances of a DCI, but it is not a guarantee.

 

[markfm]

Fair enough. That's why I mentioned practice -- I made sure to take advantage of an open-pool day a month after I did OW, have kept practicing since. Did Rescue open water today, OOA exercises and the like -- working on skills keeps them fresh.

I'm probably lucky, since I was a real air hog at first, which directly led to my focusing on my own gas management, basic planning, knowing when to turn, checks on my buddy's air. With an unfamiliar buddy, the checks underwater are more frequent.

 

[fairybasslet]

all of the above. They're tuned to prevent freeflowing which makes them breathe harder and won't deliver air well at depth. Not a good thing for an already stressed recretional diver. A tech I know who works on them, says they're of poor quality. I trust his word as he's a master instructor, cave instructor and equipment tech.

Anytime the inflator is used for something other than inflation/deflation is going to be problematic for an already stressed diver. Make sense?

I breath out of my Air2 fine. It's not hard at all. You know why I got one? Besides that it was more streamlined. Because a panicked OOA buddy will probably grab my primary out of my mouth (not wait for the octo, and the Air2 is right there for me. Maybe a bad reason, but it works for me. Besides, my BC has 2 dump valves so the argument about uncontrolled ascents is not really an argument.
Just my 2psi