Alleged illegal tanks sold by Add Helium-Heads up to any that may have purchased

[MarkFlory]

Cerich has anyone had a problem yet?
I've head of multiple approved DOT tanks blowing up. The DOT approved tanks with crap alloys in the 80's , Old steel tanks with spray in linings that moisture got behind and caused failures in the 70's (my grandfather father had these)
I don't trust my life with the Dept of Transportation . I think if these tanks are used with common sense and well cared for there will be no more issues then with regular tanks. I still would throw them out at five years just in case water had leaked throw the wrap and started corrosion.

 

[cerich]

Cerich has anyone had a problem yet?
I've head of multiple approved DOT tanks blowing up. The DOT approved tanks with crap alloys in the 80's , Old steel tanks with spray in linings that moisture got behind and caused failures in the 70's (my grandfather father had these)
I don't trust my life with the Dept of Transportation . I think if these tanks are used with common sense and well cared for there will be no more issues then with regular tanks. I still would throw them out at five years just in case water had leaked throw the wrap and started corrosion.

Do you really think most will throw them out at 5 years? I don't.

Look, cave fills on steel don't bug me one bit. The actual euro made tanks don't bug me. The Chinese ones do, in fact they scare the sheet outta me. I am pretty well versed in Chinese manuf BTW.

Really, a convicted felon has imported illegal tanks and sold them, he has made claims regarding their safety and compliance that are (very) unlikely to be true, offered no proof and been extremely careful to try and weasel word his descriptions. Yeah I get it, he's "a friend" he's a "industry leader" and you trust him. But really is the risk worth it?

 

[MarkFlory]

Cerich,
I can find no DOT regulation that prohibits a non DOT tank from being filled and transported provided it is not offered for transportation in interstate commerce.
That has been covered here on SB in depth.
Do you own research.
The DOT laws are for transportation only. Not storage or use.
If I'm wrong just so me , it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.

 

[MarkFlory]

Do you really think most will throw them out at 5 years? I don't.

Look, cave fills on steel don't bug me one bit. The actual euro made tanks don't bug me. The Chinese ones do, in fact they scare the sheet outta me. I am pretty well versed in Chinese manuf BTW.

Really, a convicted felon has imported illegal tanks and sold them, he has made claims regarding their safety and compliance that are (very) unlikely to be true, offered no proof and been extremely careful to try and weasel word his descriptions. Yeah I get it, he's "a friend" he's a "industry leader" and you trust him. But really is the risk worth it?

Just because cave fills don't bug you doesn't mean that they are safe, It just means you have something in common with all the people that own carbon fiber tanks that don't get bugged by them being filled.
Just because Add Helium , in your opinion, hasn't offered any proof that they are safe , you haven't offered any proof that they are dangerous so all I can go by is their track record and I've never heard of one single problem, that is probably the reason you're not bugged by Cave fills because you haven't seen a problem with that either.
So far I don't proof of a problem so I don't see why everybody is so worked up over what could happen.
I think we would be better focusing our energy on keeping our caves open, after the death in Eaglesnest today you know people are going to try to shut it down again and probably with the argument you're using "what could happen "

 

[cragfiend]

CERICH,
(Sorry, I did not care to quote your flame)
I'm researching. Not agreeing or disagreeing, but researching.
I agree, "My only regret is" was a poorly chosen turn of words. Immediately following I also indicated I would be buying a booster. May I add here, "rather than risk someone's safety?"
You are passionate about this, and I do understand why. That being so, I am hoping you would point me and the other board readers to the sources you have obviously taken the time to look up? It would save a bit of time, I'm sure.
I know for a fact mine become expensive water bottles at their 5th birthday. Believe me or not, your choice.
I respect your opinion about Chinese manufacturing, but not everyone there is out to cheat by cutting corners. That said, counterfeit material of any sort is of course suspect, hell, it is a forgone conclusion. Again, I am researching.
I've not lost respect for your opinion or experience Chris, though, unfortunately I fear you have lost some for me. Ah well, at least respect that I am willing to listen, conduct my own research and seek your guidance in locating the appropriate source material.
Despicable still?

 

[abnfrog]

People live in a fantasy world... ;-)

hope you are not referring to me .......my sfa chapter guys at 1-18 (life member ) might take offense at that (by the way my name is the same on THEIR blog as well,,, oh but I forgot you cant see it if your not a member

 

[Diving Dubai]

@MarkFlory @cragfiend @cerich

Interested in your comments about wrapped tanks. Ignoring the DOT, CE discussion. I'm interested in hearing your experienced with them.

For me I'm super suspicious of the technology, and I say that coming from being a materials scientist in the aerospace world.

For me the issue is that you cannot see the interface between the liner and the carbon fiber wrap.. Carbon fiber and aluminum make a excellent battery and galvanic corrosion can move incredibly quickly. You can mitigate this with the right resin choice, even so if water gets between the layers all bets are off.

You could inspect them using ultrasonic inspection, but it would need a dedicated testing house, used to inspection carbon composites (its more complex than normal metallic components like cylinders and pipes) certainly well out of the scope of a fill station

Pressure testing "might" show up the defect, but when new the manufacturers pressurise the cylinder way beyond the elastic limit of the aluminum to pre load the carbon (putting it into tension) thus a normal hydro may pass the cylinder because the carbon is holding it together for the moment. but the corrosion is still there and advancing - and the liner is a very thin wall.


I'd be wary of a known cylinder with proved provenance form a reputable manufacturer and using it underwater (from a materials stand point) so interested in real world experiences with them

 

[BoltSnap]

Do you really think most will throw them out at 5 years? I don't.

Look, cave fills on steel don't bug me one bit. The actual euro made tanks don't bug me. The Chinese ones do, in fact they scare the sheet outta me. I am pretty well versed in Chinese manuf BTW.

Really, a convicted felon has imported illegal tanks and sold them, he has made claims regarding their safety and compliance that are (very) unlikely to be true, offered no proof and been extremely careful to try and weasel word his descriptions. Yeah I get it, he's "a friend" he's a "industry leader" and you trust him. But really is the risk worth it?

I can't believe or understand how some people love to carry their own bucket of sand to bury their brains in it and insist on their ignoring facts, signs of danger, stupidity and total disregard for laws and regulations. They are trying to justify their ignorance and rationalize and hide the fact that they were had by a charlatan, just because he appeared as a nice guy and they actually looked into his heart and are certain that he has actually repented and is now a good guy.

As we say in the old country, God may forgive somebody's sins after repentance, but stupidity is eternal!!

 

[iain/hsm]

" SNIP

While they meet CE standards,

This is the problem..........They dont, It's a counterfeit CE. You have nothing other that a chap that sells
Muslin Woman's wear word the that meet "his" QA

" Add Helium is not responsible for mis-use, or improper use of this cylinder."

While I woud agree with that it still omits Add Helium have a duty of care not to supply until thay have
at the very least the CE documentation they claim. I repete this was discussed with Add Helium diectly in 2014
The markings on the cylinders are counterfeit

A lot of people including myself have now or had these tanks just so we could travel with our rebreather's to places that don't have small 2 L tanks to rent like the islands. You can ship your sorb to the hotel before you go on your trip and have it waiting for you and fly in with your own lightweight carbon fiber tanks. It fills the need for people that want to dive their rebreather when they travel. I have seen hundreds of these things all over Florida even around cave country. I have never heard of one problem."

So you are quite happy for me as a filler to risk my life and limbs filling your tanks?
You want me to take that risk?
Frankly I would prefer not to if thats OK with yourself.
But you go right on ahead and risk other folk lives

They can't be any worse than a low pressure cylinder jacked to 4000 or more in cave country,
Or a tank on some Caribbean island you rent that hasn't has a hydro or VIP in ten years so let's get some prospective on this.

The OP already has, but if you cant see that counterfeit products are way past the level of "cant be any worse"

They are sold at the buyers risk just like our CCR and Sorb. I would like to continue to have that freedom personally. If there is a problem with my cylinders safety it's on me because I knew the risk.
( I never personally put over 3000 psi in mine )

Yet your happy letting the filler at your resort hotel take the risk for you?

You can ship your sorb to the hotel before you go on your trip and have it waiting for you and fly in with your own lightweight carbon fiber tanks.

So in order for your personal freedom to buy what you like I have to risk my life and limb?
Or that your level of risk should be my level also? Doesnt seem right. Iain

 

[iain/hsm]

hope you are not referring to me .......my sfa chapter guys at 1-18 (life member ) might take offense at that

[/URL]

1-18? I guess well they might.
Sure you dont mean the guys down at the 7-11

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