all black wet suit

[Deep South Divers]

I have never found that to be the case. I put so much wear and tear on a wetsuit in my hull cleaning business that the high-wear areas (knees, neck seal, wrist seals, zippers etc.) fail long before any entire panel, colored or otherwise can fall apart.

Your neck seals, wrist seals, and zippers are "high wear" areas? Why would your neck seals and wrist seals be "high wear" areas?

You HAVE "neck seals" and "wrist seals" on your wetsuits? Or are you just talking about the "smoothskin" interior layer of the neck or wrist area of your wetsuit? Why would those wear first?

I've never found a wetsuit whose zipper isn't the LONGEST lasting part of the suit. Often times, the wetsuit we're throwing away is basically a zipper surrounded by shredded neoprene.

We do a lot of hull cleaning in our commercial company, too - and as far as that goes, almost exclusively the bottoms of our forearms wear out first.

...But in mentioning wear and tear above, I figured that I'd have to except that wear, since most people won't have that issue.

When it comes to straight age (and not punctures in the suit made by a specific activity), yeah, it's always the nylon laminate of the colored panel that falls apart first. First, it fades (royal blue turns to periwinkle, neon pink turns to flesh, neon green turns to pea soup, and grays turn to dust), then it delaminates, then it holes. Meanwhile, all of the black neoprene lasts and lasts...

Otterbaysuits.com Homepage

Dude, you're kidding, right? Did you get yours with or without the sewn-in puppy ears?

Man, take a drive down the street and get to "Know Jack:" http://www.surfline.com/surfing-a-to-z/jack-oneill-biography-and-photos_877/

His website: http://www.oneill.com

Recommended suit:

 

[fstbttms]

You HAVE "neck seals" and "wrist seals" on your wetsuits? Or are you just talking about the "smoothskin" interior layer of the neck or wrist area of your wetsuit? Why would those wear first?]

Yes, I have my jons built with a neck seal and the jackets with wrist seals. They are neoprene seals and wear first because of they spend so much time doubled in. They tend to wear where they fold.

I've never found a wetsuit whose zipper isn't the LONGEST lasting part of the suit. Often times, the wetsuit we're throwing away is basically a zipper surrounded by shredded neoprene.

Well, that's sort of what I meant. The zipper itself doesn't fail, but it begins to tear out where it was sewn into the suit. I get maybe 2.5 years out of a wetsuit.

Dude, you're kidding, right? Did you get yours with or without the sewn-in puppy ears?

Man, take a drive up the coast and get to "Know Jack:"

O'Neill makes a quality suit I suppose, but there is no off-the-rack suit that can compare to the fit and features you get in a custom suit. Yes, it costs more. But I get all the bells and whistles I want and it fits like a glove. Which as you mentioned, is the critical aspect of a wetsuit. Don't knock Otter Bay until you've tried 'em.

And yes, I get the puppy ears.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Yes, I have my jons built with a neck seal and the jackets with wrist seals. They are neoprene seals and wear first because of they spend so much time doubled in. They tend to wear where they fold.

You're diving farmer jon wetsuits? Why in the world would any commercial diver want to do that? Twice the amount of floaty neoprene, but half the warmth (because of all of the seams and water flow).

If a 7 mil one-piece isn't cutting it for you, my friend, then it's time to go dry.

Well, that's sort of what I meant. The zipper itself doesn't fail, but it begins to tear out where it was sewn into the suit. I get maybe 2.5 years out of a wetsuit.

Holy smokes, man!

We get maybe 150 dives out of a suit before we've holed the forearms to shreds from barnacles and oysters... Which is to say that they last about a month and a half. 2.5 YEARS? Are you kidding? Are you actually doing any diving with it, or are you just hanging it on a hanger and looking at it?

Without "holeing" the suit, 150 dives is about all that neoprene will go, anyway... After that, it crushes down and loses all of it's thermal properties. The softer, stretchier the neoprene, the quicker it loses it's thermal insulating properties.

O'Neill makes a quality suit I suppose, but there is no off-the-rack suit that can compare to the fit and features you get in a custom suit.

Not true.

If you look on the O'Neills, you'll notice that all of their seams are curved. Not one of them runs in a straight line. The reason is because a body is not made of straight lines. Like the stitches on a baseball or soccer ball, the best fit is achieved when the stitch curves around the curves of the body.

Of course, machines that can cut and create curved seams are expensive. Consequently, any individual making "custom" suits is stuck with stitching straight seams. In most cases, these seams never get taped or welded either, making the suit leak a little bit of water at every stitch.

The bottom line is that unless your "custom" suit is taped, welded, and stitched - and built with seams that curve around the body corrrecty - you're sacrificing fit (and therefore warmth) no matter whether the tailor's measurements were exact or not.

It's a bit like putting a golf ball into a square sock... Which is somewhat obvious when looking at the photo on Otter's first page, right down to the unfinished (and therefore allowing flow) wrists and ankle openings. Don't even get me started on the front zipper design that doesn't go all the way to the base of the neck...

Yes, it costs more.

No it doesn't. Having a suit custom-made is typically LESS expensive than buying the best "manufactured" suits in the industry. But then, you'll have to sacrifice a lot of things like fit, welds, tapes, and zippers specifically made for sealing out cold water.

But I get all the bells and whistles I want and it fits like a glove.

I don't recommend the "bells and whistles" options. They're noisy and they rust in saltwater.

Which as you mentioned, is the critical aspect of a wetsuit. Don't knock Otter Bay until you've tried 'em.

And yes, I get the puppy ears.

Lol!!!

 

[fstbttms]

You're diving farmer jon wetsuits? Why in the world would any commercial diver want to do that? Twice the amount of floaty neoprene, but half the warmth (because of all of the seams and water flow).

If a 7 mil one-piece isn't cutting it for you, my friend, then it's time to go dry.!!!

I wear a two-piece because I can go with lighter tops as the water warms up. I wear my custom 7mm jacket in the fall and early spring and go as light as a 2.5mm shorty in the summer. The jon stays the same. December thru March, I wear a 7mm Harvey's neoprene drysuit.

We get maybe 150 dives out of a suit before we've holed the forearms to shreds from barnacles and oysters... Which is to say that they last about a month and a half. 2.5 YEARS? Are you kidding? Are you actually doing any diving with it, or are you just hanging it on a hanger and looking at it?.!!!

At the rate you burn thru wetsuits, I'd have to buy a new one every month! I personally dive about 1800 boats a year. Subtracting my time in a drysuit, that means I'm getting about 3300 boats out of a wetsuit. Maybe it's you that needs to think about your choice of wetsuits.

Having a suit custom-made is typically LESS expensive than buying the best "manufactured" suits in the industry. But then, you'll have to sacrifice a lot of things like fit, welds, tapes, and zippers specifically made for sealing out cold water.!!!

Yes, you're right. I'm sure that your wetsuit, factory-made in China, fits better and is warmer than my custom made suit, measured by the person who sews and glues it together and with whom I have been doing business for 15 years.

 

[Deep South Divers]

I wear a two-piece because I can go with lighter tops as the water warms up. I wear my custom 7mm jacket in the fall and early spring and go as light as a 2.5mm shorty in the summer. The jon stays the same. December thru March, I wear a 7mm Harvey's neoprene drysuit.

Here in SC, if you try to clean a boat in a shorty, you come back with bloody, cut-up shins, knees and arms. I'm sure it's no different in CA. I have no idea why anyone in their right mind would ever not cover their skin every time they go diving. There's simply no reason to not be diving a full suit.

...With that in mind, a single-piece 3mm, 5mm, and 7mm should give you all of the functionality you could ever need, except in the very coldest of water. Why you'd want to mix and match and then leave some skin exposed is beyond me.

To boot, with all of this mixing and matching going on, there is no possible way that a wetsuit could seal where it comes together. If you've got a 7mm top that fits well with a 7mm bottom, then when you switch to a 3mm bottom, there's going to be gaps around the legs that allow tremendous water flow... Completely negating the whole point of a wetsuit.

At the rate you burn thru wetsuits, I'd have to buy a new one every month!

Yeah, that's right. Welcome to diving for real, instead of "internet diving."

Talk to the manufacturer of neoprene, and he'll tell you that getting 150 dives out of neoprene is actually really good... That, by design, the stuff is pretty much going to crush down and be worthless in terms of thermal insulation in a matter of 30-50 submerged hours.

I personally dive about 1800 boats a year.

Really? I have no idea how you manage to accomplish that. The most I've ever seen one of my guys handle is about 60 boats a month... Which equates to about 700 boats a year... And that's really rockin'. Most divers are pressed to do 30 boats a month - more like 350 boats a year. How you manage 1800, I have no idea! Unless, of course, that's simply not true.

What's the name of your company again?

Subtracting my time in a drysuit, that means I'm getting about 3300 boats out of a wetsuit. Maybe it's you that needs to think about your choice of wetsuits.

"3300 boats out of a wetsuit?" Hahahaaaaa... Talk to the manufacturers of neoprene and find out how long the very best neoprene is good for. Again, you'll find that 50 hours into it's life, and it's pretty much dead, even if you never hole it. To get 150 dives out of a suit is freakin' great...

...But then again, if you were actually diving for a living, then you'd know that. Based on the things you say here, it sounds to me like your company exists more in your mind than in reality.

Yes, you're right. I'm sure that your wetsuit, factory-made in China, fits better and is warmer than my custom made suit, measured by the person who sews and glues it together and with whom I have been doing business for 15 years.

O'Neill wetsuits aren't made in China - they're made by an individual in Santa Cruz, California, USA... Right up the street from you. How I know this over here on the East Coast, and you don't (when it's literally in your back yard) is beyond me. A very good explanation would be that you're not really a local dive ops owner.

The individual (in Santa Cruz) who is making O'Neill wetsuits has been doing it for nearly 37 years... And was originally hired by Jack O'Neill, the owner of the company and the original inventor of the modern wetsuit. Read the links I posted above.

Given that they've been doing it so long (not "15 years"), they've not only perfected the process of manufacture, but they've done it with some pretty impressive machinery that's capable of the curved, welded, and taped seam.

Where you get this "China" idea, I have no clue... But it serves to punctuate your lack of knowlege pretty well.

 

[TGreene]

Really? I have no idea how you manage to accomplish that. The most I've ever seen one of my guys handle is about 60 boats a month... Which equates to about 700 boats a year... And that's really rockin'. Most divers are pressed to do 30 boats a month - more like 350 boats a year. How you manage 1800, I have no idea! Unless, of course, that's simply not true.

Maybe he's cleaning canoes at a Girly Scouts camp...

 

[Deep South Divers]

Maybe he's cleaning canoes at a Girly Scouts camp...

Heh.

I don't know, man... And normally, I wouldn't care. But when people come on and say things like this, others (like the original poster) tend to weigh his opinion heavily because he's "got all of this experience."

Based on the things he's saying (which don't sound even vaguely accurate to me), I have to doubt the truth in his statements... Which, hopefully, will tell the public to consider that when forming an opinion of their own.

If it weren't for that, I wouldn't bother to argue about it.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

The OP's gender is not specified in his/her profile, so I can't tell if this is an issue for him/her, but I see that the O'Neill wetsuits only come in Men's or Boy's sizes -- nothing for women. They do look like nice suits, so I was sorry to see this.

 

[TGreene]

I see that the O'Neill wetsuits only come in Men's or Boy's sizes -- nothing for women.

Quite the contrary.

http://www.oneill.com/#/women/americacanada/collection/women/wetsuits/dive/wetuit_collection/

-Tim

 

[Deep South Divers]

One of my company's commercial divers - and the very female - Kym Harrington (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/members/sckymsflower.html here on ScubaBoard) doing some underwater epoxy work at the GA Aquarium, Atlanta GA. The suit that she's wearing is an O'Neill Sector 5mm:

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Tim can fill you in about how the suits fit (and therefore look) on women. I've got a similar opinion.

In fact, he may have some photos of his own to show... 'Specially since he just became the proud new owner of an O'Neill Sector 5...