All about Halcyon wings

[jplacson]

hantzu, it may have something to do with the material used in the eclipse outer bladder. The Pioneer uses thick Cordura and is relatively stiffer than the ballistic nylon used on the outer shell of the new Eclipse wing. Using an integrated STA may tear the nylon since it wasn't designed for that kind of stress. Since the Eclipse uses a doulbe bladder/removable bladder system, it might've been pointless to try to reinforce the outer shell center to accomodate the integrated STA.

This is just my guess. Looking at it from a manufacturing stand-point, this seems to be the most logical reason. Integrated STA or standard STA doesn't seem to affect diving safety or conflict with DIR in anyway, they probably decided on the simplest approach to the Eclipse wing... KISS. Adding too much padding and reinforcement just to eliminate the STA on the nylon shell does conflict with the keep-it-simple philosophy.

Anyway, that's just my guess.

 

[hantzu701]

The wing shifts? in what way? All my dive buddies dive Pioneers... some use the older one with an STA, but a lot use the newer one... I don't notice any shifting during the dive.

When I dive, I tend to roll right and left to scan the area over my head. I found that I got too focused on what was below me, so I make the effort to look around more.

Flop may not be a good word to describe what happens. I guess it might be better described as a wing shift when I roll left or right. I find this a bit annoying. As I said, my buddy does not have a problem with this and does not see a need for a STA.

While your argument on the material used for the Elipse offers a possible explaination to why the Elipse requires a STA, it neglects to address the fact that many people have added STA's to their Pioneers with no ill effect.

I think there is a serious disconnect when you roll out a "new improvement" to distinguish yourself from the crowd, then NOT INCLUDE the "improvement" in future products. While you and many others may not have a problem with the Pioneer wing, it seems clear that whoever designed the Elipse wing decided that the STA design was the better way to go for the "...Pioneer wing gone to the gym"

Hantzu

 

[LSanchez]

by my LDS that Halcyon had to make the change (to the Eclipse w/sta) for some type of European regulation. Sorry for the vagueness, but I wasnt really interested in why the change was made—I bought the Pioneer.

 

[rcrs007]

Take a look at the Eclipse page:

http://www.halcyon.net/mc/eclipse.shtml

And the Pioneer page:

http://www.halcyon.net/mc/pioneer.shtml

On the Eclipse page it's mention that "All Eclipse wings are CE-certified for sale in the European Community". Doesn't say that on the Pioneer page, maybe since Halcyon has decided to reach the non-dir-market more they decided they need more product available to the Europeans.

Ryan

 

[rcrs007]

And if making a single tank wing available to Europeans meant adding a STA, then may as well make it part of there new "pumped up" single tank wing.

Ryan

 

[MikeFerrara]

My pioneer doesn't shift. I have left the tank attached for weeks at a time while running back and forth to the pool during the week conducting training dives on the weekends without the need to reposition the wing.

I haven't talked to any one at Halcyon in a while but my guess is that the new wing uses an STA because they just need to have a wing that lets you use one. One of the advantage of an STA is that it's one way to get more weight up top. There are even weighted STA's.
I think they need to offer both and I think they think the same.

 

[MikeFerrara]

After reading the thread again, I need to ask...Is this flopping, the tank moving in relation to the wing...or...the tank and wing moving in relation to the diver?

The wing will hold tight to the tank so the firs shouldn't happen. If the later (tank moving in relation to the diver) I think the problem is in the fit of the harness.

 

[hantzu701]

After reading the thread again, I need to ask...Is this flopping, the tank moving in relation to the wing...or...the tank and wing moving in relation to the diver?

The wing will hold tight to the tank so the firs shouldn't happen. If the later (tank moving in relation to the diver) I think the problem is in the fit of the harness.

I is confused. When I see the wing "flopping", the tank seems to remain stable while the wing seems to move. Eg. If my buddy rolls left and raises his left shoulder, the left front of the wing seems to peel upward. If he rolls left, the same occurs except on the left side.

I think that I buy into the argument that the harness isn't fitted correctly. Something for me to think about. I'll have to play with harness and see if I can't tweak it properly.

hantzu

 

[jplacson]

Reply from Dave Sweetin of Halcyon:

"Hi John,

It's quite simple really...customers asked for it. There have always
been 2 distinct groups of divers, those that liked the built-in single
tank adapter, and those that like the concept of the STA.

We started playing with designs for the Eclipse in early 2002, with
test prototypes being tested around the globe soon after."

Hahahaha... for all our guessing, it was just simple customer demand! I guess the shifting issue isn't really a big enough deal to interfere with diving performance.

 

[boomx5]

I is confused. When I see the wing "flopping", the tank seems to remain stable while the wing seems to move. Eg. If my buddy rolls left and raises his left shoulder, the left front of the wing seems to peel upward. If he rolls left, the same occurs except on the left side.

I think that I buy into the argument that the harness isn't fitted correctly. Something for me to think about. I'll have to play with harness and see if I can't tweak it properly.

hantzu

It sounds like it could be a weighting issue to me. If you are over weighted, you'll need more air in the wing; more air means that bubble is going to be moving around alot which "could" be what your experiencing (but like I said, it's just a guess).