Al Hornsby Resigns

[mdb]

I hope your right, but as they say, t .

How right you are Thal.

I just heard that several members of the current DEMA BOD's have announced, petulantly, that they have no intention to step down to provide a clean slate for a reselection.

This news was not surprising. As you said: "the best predictor of future behavior is past performance".

I would think that many will just move away, no more dues, no more DEMA.

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

No surprise at all. Quite a few of the people on the petition pulled their name off it....some big names too.

My rendition of they said
"OH, the wording was bad and we now do NOT believe in the quest of this UDI mission"

Right...you looked at it for weeks, and didn't have a problem until here, at DEMA. GROW A PAIR. You didn't believe in it before and someone scared ya...admit it. Don't blame it on wording as it was pretty clear what the deal was!

 

[offthewall1]

I'm not going to waste a lot of my time trying to be the saviour of the industry - at least not all by myself...

However if any of you retailers out there are serious enough to want to stand up and join me, I'm prepared to start work on the new DRA (Dive Retailers Association.)

There will have to be a significant membership to jump start it... and many of the old school shops that like protectionism will likely ignore us...

But I think there is a significant youth movement among ownership across the country... the problem is there is no cohesiveness and no one is taking the time to make the necessary contacts to bring the group together.

DEMA works to keep this from happening. It does not have the best interest of the LDS at heart.

If you have an interest in forming the DRA... respond by Private Messaging me and tell any other like minded retailers you know to do the same.

We can arrange a meeting in early 2010 to meet & greet, form, elect officers, draft bylaws and form a mission statement.

I'm hoping some of you are serious about saving the sport...

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I'm not going to waste a lot of my time trying to be the saviour of the industry - at least not all by myself...

However if any of you retailers out there are serious enough to want to stand up and join me, I'm prepared to start work on the new DRA (Dive Retailers Association.)

There will have to be a significant membership to jump start it... and many of the old school shops that like protectionism will likely ignore us...

<SNIP>

I'm hoping some of you are serious about saving the sport...

If you are serious about saving the sport, please rethink your prejudice toward independent instructors.

A good independent instructor develops a trust with his or her students that dive centers and shop affiliated instructors do not often enjoy.

People are very quick to pick up on the selling and marketing that is directed at them. For example, my girlfriend's birthday was yesterday. I went to a local mall to buy her a nice gift, but I was creamed with Christmas decorations and carols the moment I walked into the mall. I entered through Sears and was so annoyed that I made a mental note not to buy any tools or hardware until Spring. I LOVE CHRISTMAS, but Puh-lease! I complained as I bought my girlfriend a birthday card and the lady in Hallmark said, "We are just trying to make as much money as possible this year!" NO KIDDING! Even Borders had a pink Christmas tree to welcome me! Ok, no books, either! I decided to do something special and romantic for her instead. That sort of marketing was like getting run over by a reindeer. Turned me right off retailers for Christmas 2009.

In dive centers, the customer is smart and sees through all the tricks of marketing. They joke about it behind the owner's backs and often gripe to the instructors. They lose trust in dive center staff quickly. However, many independent instructors focus on training and products that work. Once trust is established, the students listen. Yes, your independents may tell your students and customers not to buy Product A and that might annoy you, but check your year-end sales of the products that independents might recommend compared to your dive staff. You may find you'd unload a huge inventory of Products B, C and D.

Grow the independents and you'll grow your business and grow diving.

If you are having problems with independents recommending you or bringing in their students, there might be a reason.

 

[mdb]

"Grow the independents and you'll grow your business and grow diving."

Trace; that is a great comment. We want educated and competent divers.
All the rest will sort out.

I also think your comment: "If you are having problems with independents recommending you or bringing in their students, there might be a reason." this is spot on.

 

[offthewall1]

I have never said I didn't like the idea of independents - what I've said is independents hurt the industry. I believe in a fusion of the idea.

I believe Independents must be required to affiliate with a shop. This doesn't mean they can't teach independently.

For every argument you make about how much better independent instructors are than shop instructors, I can make an argument that they are not. Certainly there are some great independent instructors... and there are some great shop instructors. One does not negate the other.

First we must examine why independent instructors wish to remain independent. There are a few reasons:
1. They don't like to follow the rules (this is a problem that must be reigned in for the industry to survive.)
2. They don't like or get along with the only shop near them (this may or may not be a valid reason - as it may lead back simply to #1 - they don't like answering to authority.)
3. They think they make more money teaching independently (probably the only valid reason one can give for teaching independently,) but this is not always the case.

Now a whole lot can fall under #2. Maybe the LDS owner is a complete flunky. Maybe he runs a piss-poor shop. Maybe he overcharges for everything from air to gear. Maybe he's just an ignorant blow-hard etc...

In an area such as this, then the independent has a business opportunity to open up a competing shop and run that nit-wit out of business. Now I'll agree that not every independent instructor is interested in owning a dive shop.. nor do they all have the financial ability even if they do have an interest.

This is why affiliation with a shop is important. I never said the independent had to be affiliated with the closest LDS to them... but they should be affiliated with someone they know and like, who can provide them with support, possibly pool time and potentially gear and equipment, travel planning, etc...

My arguments against independents hold water - no matter whether you want to admit them or not.

1. Many, not all, but many independents are telling their students to buy online. You can see this clearly all over this board and others. This is some part of the lost business to LDS's around trhe country.
2. Many, not all, but many independents operate outside of training standards and there is no oversight to correct violations. This mis endangering students and leading them to drop from the sport when they do not feel comfortable and competent in their abilities. To be fair, this is also happening in poorly run "cattle call" shops where training is about the dollar and not the sport.
3. Many, not all, but many independents don't even carry insurance nor are they even actively renewed with a certifying agency. PADI for one reports a number of incidents of people calling asking where their c-cards are - as they were taught by non-teaching status independents the world over. The customer is out money - and has no valid cert. This must be reigned in. If customers are not walking into a dive shop, they have no way - in some cases - especially with fringe agencies, to know if the card they're getting is valid or if they will ever even receive a card.

Trace -

Now in our dive center, you wouldn't feel the way you did at Sears. If anything, you may wonder if you're in a dive shop. We don't try to sell you anything. We talk diving... but if you ask us a question about something specific, like "I'm looking for a new regulator, what do you recommend?" - then you'll get an answer. The answer is generally a question, like "What type of diving do you plan on doing?" Based on this answer we can make recommendations. Cold water? Warm Water? Once a year on vacation? Hardcore Cave's or NE coast at 300 feet. The answer will vary based on your diving philosophy.

As an example, ALL modern regulators will work for 90% of recreational divers. I don't care if it's the $175 Cressi AC2/XS2 0r the $1000.00 Atomic... they'll all work just fine in water 50F and up and for vacationing divers virtually worldwide in warm water. You're advised to choose a budget and buy that which you're most comfortable getting within your budget - they ALL Work.

The answer is different if you tell us you'll be diving in the caves of north Florida or going to 150 ft off the NE coast in 40F water. Some regs are ruled out and some with more glitz are introduced.. like those with sealed chambers and flow controls etc...

I think that in the end - you blindly assume that Independents are "better" instructors than store instructors. I'm much more of a realist. I know that there are good and bad independents and good and bad store instructors... but as a store owner, I can hand select the best instructors in my area and refuse work to the bad ones... thus ensuring my students, those that come to me and put their trust in me and my store - that their education will be a good one.

A customer out there finding an Independent by happenstance is delving into the proverbial box of chocolates. They may get a good one - they may get a bad one. They may actually get a c-card, they may not. They may be force-fed into gear that instructor likes - but not what is necessarily best for them as a diver.

We can argue all day....

For me, anything that hurts the face of diving - which like it or not - is still the LDS... and likely to be the LDS for sometime - is bad for the industry.

What I see... is Manufacturers and Training Agencies are turning their backs on the LDS in favor of this:
1. People search online for SCUBA via google or other means
2. They find PADI, SDI, SSI etc... and sign up online / take their course
3. They select a local independent instuctor from a drop down menu of active instructors
4. They select an internet seller from a drop down menu and order their gear (see Aqualung online)
5. Have a gear problem? Go to the Manufacturers site and select a local repair tech in your area from a drop down menu.
6. Need a local air fill? Go to you training agency page and select a local fill station from the drop down menu.

Where is the LDS? The answer - GONE.
Where is the industry in 5 years? The answer - GONE

Why will it be gone? The LDS is the hub for all activity that is Scuba. The changes noted above all make sense - until you really - and I mean really - think about the ramifications.

 

[fireflock]

Why will it be gone? The LDS is the hub for all activity that is Scuba. The changes noted above all make sense - until you really - and I mean really - think about the ramifications.

The industry has this one backwards (like so many other things).

The CUSTOMER is the hub for all scuba activity. Without them, there will be no LDS, no independent instructor, and nothing else.

If customers like independent instructors, the industry need to figure out how to allow for that kind of experience.

Make a list of who you think are the top 10 innovate, successful, or up and coming scuba businesses. I bet not one of them made that list by listening to what someone from the industry said was best for the industry. My bet is that those 10 made the list by offering customers something that the rest of the scuba world wasn't.

 

[Thalassamania]

With respect to independents and standards, in my experience, OTW has it backwards. Independents are much more likely to meet or exceed standards than are shop instructors who are constantly under the gun to produce the most students for the least expenditure of instructor and pool time.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

OffTheWall,

Independents are good for the diving industry because each individual instructor out there who wants to teach diving will find the drive, determination, and creativity to gain access to a pool, to pool time, or acceptable confined water area. When they are told, "No, you can't use the pool," or, "No, no one would be interested in such a program here," independents don't take, "No," for an answer. They are tenacious and many excellent youth and community outreach programs have come about thanks to an independent instructor who just wanted to teach that badly.

If every possible pool and training source were being utilized in a community for scuba training, there would be many more divers in a community to be potential customers. I say "potential" because customers are free to patron the dive center 5 minutes away, 5 hours away or online. But, the more people there are who are turned on to diving, the more people will buy and most people in a community will buy most of their gear from a local dive center. The instructors job is to make a diver. The retailers job is to make that diver want to shop there.

Our lacrosse team was independent of a small local sporting goods store. The store offered nothing, but service with a smile. The owner decided to buy some STX lacrosse sticks because he thought he could sell them to the University of Scranton lacrosse team. His sales doubled then tripled. He had no idea that Marywood University had a lacrosse team too (we just had formed) and many of us bought sticks for our friends and girlfriends just to teach them to "throw" (play catch). Today, I'm sure more people would buy sticks online, but that is a change in retail market. The more lacrosse teams in Scranton, the more sticks he would probably sell. In fact, our 2nd coach hated STX and preferred Brine. We bought STX because we could have sticks that day 15 minutes from school. We didn't have a lot of respect for our 2nd coach either. If we did, less STX sticks would have been in our arsenal I'm sure.

Dive shops don't often have the reach and the tenacity to open up diving. They operate like churches hoping to get people in the doors, while independents operate like missionaries and take diving to places that may even fight them for it. Independents fight the red tape of community aquatics directors and get access to pools with more fury than most dive centers. Once a dive center gets a pool, the center often gets the pool to agree to not let any other scuba classes into the pool to control their territory. Hello, McFly! More divers means more sales! The dive center through which I'm affiliated gets annoyed if I run a classes when they are busy because the class shares retail space. Guess what? I don't like being scolded for teaching so I teach less to stay out of trouble and not always be in the classroom. That is less divers for them, less sales, and less sales and divers for you because lots of our customers are within driving distance of you.

By controlling educators, you stifle their outreach capability and there will be less divers diving.

How would you sell J'ai Alai equipment in MD? Open a store? Or get coaches to create programs in all the schools?

 

[The Chairman]

Dive shops don't often have the reach and the tenacity to open up diving. They operate like churches hoping to get people in the doors, while independents operate like missionaries and take diving to places that may even fight them for it.

Wow! I feel chills up and down my spine with that. Well said!