al double 80's , pst 104's ?

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With HP tanks, it is harder to find shope that fill to 3500 cool. The LP tanks can be overfilled, but it is all conntected to the type of suit you are wearing. You need to ask yourself, can you swim your doubles up from a depth or hold a stop with your ditchable weight gone, low on gas, or an emergnecy? I believe the HP tanks hurt with trim as well.


Eric
 
ericfine50 once bubbled...
With HP tanks, it is harder to find shops that fill to 3500 cool.

This is correct. It becomes an especially critical and common problem when you start diving gases other than air, which you should be doing by the time you start diving doubles.

While I do agree that its not generally a good idea to dive steel doubles wet, I do not agree that a dual bladder BC is an acceptable soultion. Either dive dry or take your chances with a liftbag, don't introduce the additional problems of dual bags.

WW
 
roakey once bubbled...
There's enough misinformation running around about cylinders that we need not contribute to it, which is why I jumped on you about how you phrased it.

What you meant to say is that you like the buoyancy characteristics of steel cylinders more than ALs (more negative when empty).

Bouyancy swings 1 pound for about every 13 cubic feet of air you stuff into a cylinder, no matter what the they're made of OR their size.

Roak

No problem, i expect to be corrected by people on the board when i make a statement that is either incomplete or incorrect. :)
 
Rick Murchison once bubbled...
Here's GI3 on tanks...
"The buoyancy characteristics of aluminum, especially when using helium

I don't understand why he is qualifying this with the use of trimix. In this instance, what difference does it make? Assumed depth with resultant suit compression? That would not seem to make a difference in the context of the entire statement.

MD
 
Air weights 6 pounds. I believe He weights less and this can affect the tanks. I think. It may be the lack of coffee talking.

Eric
 
ericfine50 once bubbled...
It may be the lack of coffee talking.

Eric

I'm on my fourth cup. Maybe thats it :bonk: :confused:

On the He thing, I wouldn't think the weight difference could be anything significant, although if it is, I'm keeping mix in my steels all the time :mean:

MD
 
Nice. I was getting a nice huge cup from Dunkies and the person carrying the coffee spilled all of them. Man, that hurt :upset:


Eric
 
So you want to get in a position where you're not relying on anything for a buoyancy bailout. On the other hand you, don't want a whole bunch of gas in the wings so they're jacked up which is going to slow you down, cause more drag and be more unstable in order to stay up. You just want to be fine-tuning your trim. You want to be able to put enough gas in your drysuit to stay warm but you don't want to have to jack it up and jack wings up because you're too heavy. Conversely, when you're up low on gas or whatever and you've got maybe some stage bottles on you don't want to be having trouble staying down and not being able to put enough gas in your drysuit at the end of the dive when you need the warmth the most. That's a big part of this whole system. That's why we don't dive steel tanks with a wetsuit. Body cavities compress, all the materials compress, everything compresses, you get down and you can't get up. I bought a set of Genesis 102s 12 years ago when they first came out. Jumped in with my wings, harness, got to 250ft and completely lost all my buoyancy. Dropped to the sand at 300, luckily there was a floor, and I crawled up this wreck, all the way up the wreck, up the tower of the wreck, until I got back to 260 or 250 and then I could gain equilibrium. Burned off a little gas. It's ridiculous, you don't think it's possible. It's amazing how negative your body and everything gets when you compress. That was a real shocker. So it's generally better to have aluminum tanks with a thin wetsuit and a weight belt so you have droppable weight of some kind. And with salt water and a drysuit and 104s, you don't have the same issue. But anyway, these things have to be thought through for every type of diving. That's a big part of the system. It's also a big part of being slick and being quick and not being over or under weighted. With stage diving using aluminum bottles you can float the bottles up on your lift bag, your deco line, your up-line, whatever you're using. You can fire the bottles up if they become too buoyant at deco. That's what we do. We just let them go, stage bottles or deco bottles, let them ride up the line.
 
boomx5 once bubbled...

You can fire the bottles up if they become too buoyant at deco. That's what we do. We just let them go, stage bottles or deco bottles, let them ride up the line.

Well, that's peachy if ya got SS O2 and a support team to go fetch your equipment thats floating away :D

Letting your deco bottles float up might be a problem if you're breathing off them at the time.

Still doesn't address the helium comment though.

Good post boomx

MD
 
In the DIRF book, the weight of air in a set of double 80s is quoted at around 12 pounds, and helium would be 3 pounds. I would like to see a definitive source for this type of data though.
 

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