Air2 or SS1

[FredGarvin]

A dive buddy of mine expressed the thought that in a true out-of-air emergency, handing an AIR2 or Atomic SS1 to a terrified buddy may result in a disaster. He suggested the terrified victim may push the inflate button while struggling to get air from the integrated inflator/reg. and cause an out of control rapid accent as a result.

Has anyone heard of such a thing? In fact, has anyone used one of these devices in an emergency?

Garv.

 

[BKP]

Your dive buddy doesn't understand the function of an Air2 or SS1 in an emergency situation.

You don't pass the integrated octo. You pass the primary, and use the integrated yourself... Your buddy never gets your inflator...

 

[Harley1962]

Actually, it's my understanding that the donor (not the OOA "terrified buddy" as you described) uses the Air2 or SS1 alternate (at least that's the way most of the Manufacturers intended and that's the way it's demonstrated via PADI), and in an OOA situation the donor must take their own primary (from their mouth) and give to the OOA diver.

You are (perhaps) correct in that a "terrified/panicking" diver who is suddenly and unexpectedly OOA may simply "grab" the first available air source, and being that either the Air2 or SS1 is on a shorter hose (and farther for that diver to reach) such a panicked diver would perhaps grab the primary out of the donor's mouth anyway...forcing the donor (willingly or not) to use their Air or SS1 alternate for themself.

Regardless, ALL divers that use such types of BCD-mounted alternate air sources MUST be familiar with their use and must PRACTICE switching back and forth--the concept of taking a "perfectly working" regulator from you own mouth and giving it up to an OOA diver--and having to find/clear the AAS to re-establish your own breathing-- has given pause to many a diver and is (and continues to be) a heavily debated subject.

If you have heard/seen otherwise I would be interested to know..

Cheers,
HB

 

[FredGarvin]

Actually, it's my understanding that the donor (not the OOA "terrified buddy" as you described) uses the Air2 or SS1 alternate (at least that's the way most of the Manufacturers intended and that's the way it's demonstrated via PADI), and in an OOA situation the donor must take their own primary (from their mouth) and give to the OOA diver.

You are (perhaps) correct in that a "terrified/panicking" diver who is suddenly and unexpectedly OOA may simply "grab" the first available air source, and being that either the Air2 or SS1 is on a shorter hose (and farther for that diver to reach) such a panicked diver would perhaps grab the primary out of the donor's mouth anyway...forcing the donor (willingly or not) to use their Air or SS1 alternate for themself.

Regardless, ALL divers that use such types of BCD-mounted alternate air sources MUST be familiar with their use and must PRACTICE switching back and forth--the concept of taking a "perfectly working" regulator from you own mouth and giving it up to an OOA diver--and having to find/clear the AAS to re-establish your own breathing-- has given pause to many a diver and is (and continues to be) a heavily debated subject.

If you have heard/seen otherwise I would be interested to know..

Cheers,
HB

So Harley,

What do you use? If a simple standard octopus, then have you ever used an AIr2 or SS1?

Based on what you stated, it seems that an octo set-up may still be a safer bet.

On a side note, if you use one of these alternatives, which one and are you happy with it?

Best wishes,
Garv

 

[BKP]

So Harley,

What do you use? If a simple standard octopus, then have you ever used an AIr2 or SS1?

Based on what you stated, it seems that an octo set-up may still be a safer bet.

On a side note, if you use one of these alternatives, which one and are you happy with it?

Best wishes,
Garv

Garv, you passed on MY helpful information, but, I'll give my unsolicted take anyway.

I used an SS1 for a few years, and never had a single issue with it (you can see it clearly on my profile pic -- which was down about 100 feet on the Spiegel, and it breathed as well down there as my Atomic B2 primary).

I've practiced emergency buddy ascents with it, OOA situations, as well as buoyancy control while breathing the integrated. In all situations it performed flawlessly. In fact, due to the size and location of the inflator and deflator buttons, I found it easier to use than a standard inflator.

That being said, I recently switched to a separate octo. The *only* reasons being 1) if you travel often (with your regs), and have a need to rent a bc, you're screwed, not having a standard configuration; 2) as a DM candidate a traditional setup is preferable.

Was any of that thoughtful?

 

[digital_steve]

FWIW i used one of these devices (the zeagle octo z) and ran a 5foot hose on my primary, hog looped (under the arm, around the neck, in the gob)
Very neat, minimal setup and the extra length on the primary makes sharing air much more comfortable

 

[Ben_ca]

I've had a bad experience with an Air2 type reg and it wasn't even mine.

We were about to start our dive when we spotted another diver who was slow to descend with his group. He was fidgeting with his gear and seemed like there was a problem. We called out to ask if he was ok. Silence then one short "help" then a "Help!"

Me and my team (3 of us) kicked/scootered over the 30 ft and were on him in no time. He was trying to inflate his BC but couldn't... I tried to help but not being familiar with the inflator/Air2 whenever I would push any of the 2 buttons it seemed like it was venting rather than taking on air. He was in a panic and couldn't figure it out himself (and this was his rig!) Even when I tried to orally inflate that wasn't doing much. We bouyed him up and got him calmed down and eventually figured out how to inflate. (oh and then much later his buddies noticed he was gone)

What I learned: A simple inflator/octo is much easier to work with from the view point of the victim and the rescuer.

 

[FishOutUvH2O]

I use an SS1, like it and have no plans to change unless I go tech. I also agree that like every other piece of equipment you have, you need to know how to use it and then practice, practice, practice. For me personally, I unintentionally practice finding and putting my SS1 in my mouth every time I need to add air to my BC. I refuse to waste perfectly good air filling my BC and tend to only orally inflate it. Based on my reading on the board, it would appear that many more people are in favor of donating their primary than an octo. In fact after reading a lot about long hoses on the primary (sorry to you tech folks for stealing your idea, but a good idea is a good idea), I'm planning on testing it out and will probably switch to one.

 

[Couv]

FWIW i used one of these devices (the zeagle octo z) and ran a 5foot hose on my primary, hog looped (under the arm, around the neck, in the gob)
Very neat, minimal setup and the extra length on the primary makes sharing air much more comfortable

Digital_Steve points out one of the most important and most overlooked gear modifications to the inflator/second stage combo configuration. Because the owner is donating his primary second stage, the hose should be longer than the standard 28" to 30" hose.

The size of the diver and the type of diving should dictate the length of the primary hose; but I think anything under 36" is too short. Additionally, try out different length inflator hoses and corrugated hoses to make sure you are not short changing yourself. I say this because the most common gripe I see posted is the corrugate hose limits the users head mobility. Beg, borrow or steal different length hoses and try them out in a pool if possible. As with any new modification to your gear, be very familiar with it prior diving it in unfamiliar settings.

couv

 

[ronbeau]

So Harley,

What do you use? If a simple standard octopus, then have you ever used an Air 2 or SS1?

Based on what you stated, it seems that an octo set-up may still be a safer bet.

On a side note, if you use one of these alternatives, which one and are you happy with it?

Best wishes,
Garv

I owned a ScubaPro Air 2 and currently own the Atomic SS1.

I prefer the SS1 since it is removable, the buttons are large and the purge valve surface area is infinitely larger than the little circle on the bottom of the Air 2.

As the previous poster indicated it breathes as well as my Atomic B2 at 100 feet.

Since the SS1 simply unscrews from the corrugated BC inflater hose it make flushing out the BC bladder a snap. It is so easy that I actually do it after every day of ocean diving. The ability to unscreww the SS1 alos makes packing it in a carry-on easier.

The suggested service interval on the SS1 is every 2 years as opposed to every year for the Air 2.

As others have said you buddy does not understand how to use an inflator/safe second combination unit. You might want to educate him/her based on what you have learned here on ScubaBoard.