AFter several attempts at BP's and Wings...

[wch]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

...what if it were safer Bill?

Is your "not buying it" truely the end conclusion after having carefully examined the why's and wherefores of the DIR approach to diving or is it an emotional reaction to the "better than thou attitude by some of its followers"?

One is rational...
The other is not...
Think rationally and choose wisely.

Ignorance and emotions probably.

I think I have done a poor job of expressing myself. I KNOW there is a lot that I could benefit from DIR. Only a fool would think they know it all and could not improve through more education. I guess I need a better understanding of how DIR practices will make me a safer recreational diver. There is no question in my mind about technical diving.
Just don’t assume that DIR corners the market on buoyancy control, buddy awareness, practicing with your buddy and having the same gear configurations as your buddy. And the need to have constant skill improvement.
I don’t want to be close-minded, just don’t tell me it is safer, tell me how it is safer.
Bill

 

[wch]

metridium once bubbled...

I have no idea what sort of diving you do, but I'd honestly like to know what you're doing differently from the rec mainstream and DIR so I can evaluate it and see if it's worth adopting.

That's just it. The only things I know that I am doing different than DIR is our choice of gear configuration, and finning.
As I said in another post, what makes DIR safer?
Bill

 

[metridium]

wch wrote...

As I said in another post, what makes DIR safer?
Bill

A few from my perspective to get the ball rolling:

teaches streamlining

teaches proper weighting

teaches proper trim

teaches redundancy - learned the value of this the hard way on a first stage failure

teaches using the long hose and donating primary

 

[wch]

metridium once bubbled...

A few from my perspective to get the ball rolling:

teaches streamlining

teaches proper weighting

teaches proper trim

teaches redundancy - learned the value of this the hard way on a first stage failure

teaches using the long hose and donating primary

1.So did my first PADI instructor.
2. Was taught it, but took me about 20 dives before the light went on and
I actually got it right.
3. Ditto my second answer.
4. Good point. But when diving a single tank generally less than 70 ft do you have a pony or other redundant air supply besides your buddy?
5. Of course, I have an octo lenght hose on my primary, it would be a sight to see me donating my Air2!

It seems that most of the necessary skills are taught in BOW, but the speed of the course limited the importance or fine tuning of the skills. That is the individual divers resposibility to themselves and thier buddy to practice and improve on those skills.

I decided to donate to the cause, just ordered Doing it Right from Amaozon.com. U.P. I decided I should know more before I speak/type.
Bill

 

[metridium]

wch wrote...
1.So did my first PADI instructor.

Really? Stowing the long hose along the contours of your body to minimize drag and entanglement possibilities? Using a backplate/wings to minimize your hydrodynamic signature?

wch wrote...
2. Was taught it, but took me about 20 dives before the light went on and I actually got it right.

Lucky you. We were taught keep it on our weightbelts, instead of near our center of buoyancy.

wch wrote...
3. Ditto my second answer.

We were taught that fin pivot thing, but not how to correct weighting to achieve proper trim.

wch wrote...
4. Good point. But when diving a single tank generally less than 70 ft do you have a pony or other redundant air supply besides your buddy?

Here's a critical diversion from DIR: I frequently dive solo at shallow depths Instead of a pony, I use H-valves on my tanks. On deeper dives, I go with a buddy.

wch wrote...
5. Of course, I have an octo lenght hose on my primary, it would be a sight to see me donating my Air2!

I use a 5' primary, and am planning on increasing it. The extra control it would give with a panicked diver or in situations where you need to swim side-by-side could be critical. Hence, I think it's superior - and therefore safer - to the common OW practice.

 

[Uncle Pug]

Jarhead once bubbled...
There is no link to your site from the the GUE site.
Accomplishments earn respect. Arrogance breeds contempt.



Nothing worth mentioning, but then I haven't claimed to either.

Not my site Jarhead... in fact I'm not even a card carrying member of SCRET.... but they are a team that does the deed DIR.

My ending question was an unkind slap... I'm sorry... please forgive me.

 

[Uncle Pug]

wch once bubbled...
Ignorance and emotions probably.


I don’t want to be close-minded, just don’t tell me it is safer, tell me how it is safer.

...it understanding and enlightenment.
Not many can see that in themselves...
Fewer can admit it.

What makes it safer.... I don't have time to tell you because I have to rush off and finish roofing a friend's house...

But... and I know this is not what you want or need... but perhaps it will hold the wolves at bay:

I have a suspicion that if I had not found out about DIR and taken my buds to a DIRF I might not be alive today....

More to come....

 

[jonnythan]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
I have a suspicion that if I had not found out about DIR and taken my buds to a DIRF I might not be alive today....

More to come....

Always so dramatic!!

 

[wch]

Metridium
I was taught with a jacket style BC. No long hose to put along the body to limit drag or entanglements in fact just three hoses on the set-up to limit the above.
Using a wing/BP is safer because minimizes my hydrodynamic signature?
Ease of use/mobility I understand, safety, nope.
The BC had back pockets for trim weights. We were shown how to adjust these and our weightbelts up or down for trim, but we did not spend the time to actually get our weighting exact, I was overweighted.
This would be a safety issue if one was underweighted or grossly over weighted, but we were show the proper way to get our weighting right.
I am never in a situation were we can not go straight up, besides maybe the dive boat, a 1 meter hose has worked in our OOA drills. I don’t know about in real life besides stories our instructor told, which did not include a long hose.

Bottom line is I still don’t see how DIR is safer, maybe after I read the book or Uncle Pug’s story he left dangling.

 

[MSP Rescue Diver]

sheck33 once bubbled...
the fact that DIR divers all use the same setup has distinct advantages.

Do mainstream divers using the same setup of a yellow alternate air source attached in the triangle formed by the chin and the lower corners of your rib cage have a distinct advantage as well?

Just wondering.