AFter several attempts at BP's and Wings...

[jonnythan]

FLL Diver once bubbled...


Do mainstream divers using the same setup of a yellow alternate air source attached in the triangle formed by the chin and the lower corners of your rib cage have a distinct advantage as well?

Just wondering.

Buddies with identical gear configs have a distinct advantage over those with markedly different configs.

 

[metridium]

wch wrote...
Metridium
I was taught with a jacket style BC. No long hose to put along the body to limit drag or entanglements in fact just three hoses on the set-up to limit the above.

Me too. "Luckily for me, I got better!" he said in his best Monty Python voice.

wch wrote...
Using a wing/BP is safer because minimizes my hydrodynamic signature?
Ease of use/mobility I understand, safety, nope.

Think along the lines of task-loading. If you're more comfortable in the water, that's one less thing to distract you when things become intense. Also, the streamlining can be important when you're fighting a current, and should also lead to lower air consumption. Making the most of your remaining air is a good thing in my book.

wch wrote...
I am never in a situation were we can not go straight up, besides maybe the dive boat, a 1 meter hose has worked in our OOA drills. I don’t know about in real life besides stories our instructor told, which did not include a long hose.

Let's say you're diving from a boat moored on a wreck, and there's a current. You're messing around in the shelter of the wreck when someone comes up to you OOA. As you're getting the guy squared away and switching over to your backup, you drift out of the shelter and into the current. Now the upline is a fair distance away, and getting farther by the second. What do you do?

If you've donated a long hose, the two of you can swim normally side by side to the upline and ascend, assuming you can fight the current to that point. If not, you can still ascend side by side, shoot an SMB, and complete your stops. Hopefully the boat has seen your marker and has sent out someone to retrieve you.

Powering into a current and/or shooting an SMB aren't going to be accomplished as easily if you're locked into the standard face to face share-air position, at least to my way of thinking. Think of what any significant delays might do in the context of the example above.

 

[Spectre]

FLL Diver once bubbled...
Do mainstream divers using the same setup of a yellow alternate air source attached in the triangle formed by the chin and the lower corners of your rib cage have a distinct advantage as well?

I can't answer directly, but let me go through what caused me to change my hoses over to 7' primary and bungied alternate...

It starts with my BP/Wings. That was done to get weight off my belt [and to work my way to doubles]. I used to have a pony bottle rigged upside down. With the straps through the BP, I couldn't rig upside-down anymore.. the only way to have it secure was right-side up. I tried it out of water, and I couldn't come close to reaching the valve [which is why I had it upside down in the first place].

So it went to a stage bottle rig.

My alternate ran behind my right shoulder, under my right arm, and across to my left breast. This kept my hoses tight.

However with the stage bottle where it was, it interfered with the placement of the alternate. I had to either move it back to the right side [in which case my hoses stuck out too far for me to be comfortable around wrecks], or go with another option.

So the only real option was to go with a shorter hose... which is too short to handle a buddy in an OOA situation. So that's when I went with the 7' primary.

I'm not sure that helps, but that's my story and how I know the move to the DIR style hose setup was the right choice for me.

 

[Lost Yooper]

I believe I read these guys broke 18K recently in the UK:

http://www.tekdyk.dk/doux/UK/setup.htm

 

[sheck33]

FLL Diver once bubbled...


Do mainstream divers using the same setup of a yellow alternate air source attached in the triangle formed by the chin and the lower corners of your rib cage have a distinct advantage as well?

Just wondering.

they dont, mainstream divers most certainly do not use standardized gear, it is a mix of octo's stuffed in various places with hoses of various lenghts and sometimes an AIR II in which case the OOA diver DOES get the primary which subsequently is on a hose that is too short. The mainstream community doesnt even come close to having standardized gear. When i go diving with 4 non-DIR divers i will be looking at 4 different gear configurations, when diving with DIR buddies i know where what piece of equipment is located on each diver without really having to look at it.

 

[wch]

sheck33 once bubbled...
with hoses of various lenghts and sometimes an AIR II in which case the OOA diver DOES get the primary which subsequently is on a hose that is too short. .

I believe DIR uses at least 2 lengths of hose, 5&7 ft.
You assume that if someone has an Air2 that the primary is too short. We use an octo lenght (39 inch) hose as a primary. Too short for a technical environment where a pair would need to swim one after the other, but in no way too short for rec diving IMHO.
The only difference in my buddy pair is he has a jacket BC, I have a backinflate-all other equipment is the same with a little brand/model diffference.
Bill

Hey Pug, where's the story?
You need to secure that story you left dangling

 

[sheck33]

wch once bubbled...

I believe DIR uses at least 2 lengths of hose, 5&7 ft.
You assume that if someone has an Air2 that the primary is too short. We use an octo lenght (39 inch) hose as a primary. Too short for a technical environment where a pair would need to swim one after the other, but in no way too short for rec diving IMHO.
The only difference in my buddy pair is he has a jacket BC, I have a backinflate-all other equipment is the same with a little brand/model diffference.
Bill

Lets put it this way, when i talk about gear in above fashion i am always referring to what i have seen on the beach one time, very recently actually, i saw a diver with an Air2 as an octopus on a hose that was shorter than the primary hose. The primary hose certainly not being 39'', the octopus was an Air2 without the corrugated inflator hose. It would have been interesting to see an airshare with that setup.

It is not just the rec community that can improve, a lot of tech divers have a 7' hose as an octo stuffed in one way or another. The lenght is not the issue but the stuffing is, they cant stuff it back without help, the argument i hear then is when i have to share air the dive is over which is not always true.

anyway

 

[Former FLL Now MSP Diver]

sheck33 once bubbled...
they dont, mainstream divers most certainly do not use standardized gear, it is a mix of octo's stuffed in various places
with hoses of various lenghts

You shouldn't generalize. My buddy's equipment and configuration is exactly the same as mine except for some color accents. And the group I usually dive with have the same configuration, though some of the brands are different. Surely the color and brand can't be an issue.

When i go diving with 4 non-DIR divers i will be looking at 4 different gear configurations, when diving with DIR buddies i know where what piece of equipment is located on each diver without really having to look at it.

Generalizing again. Besides I thought you wouldn't dive with non-DIR divers, in which case it shouldn't be an issue for you.

And now a serious question. With the hose wrapped underneath a light canister, then across your chest and around the back of your neck, isn't it difficult for a panicked diver to pull it away from you? Do masks ever get knocked off or hoses hung up?

Marc

 

[sheck33]

FLL Diver once bubbled...


You shouldn't generalize. My buddy's equipment and configuration is exactly the same as mine except for some color accents. And the group I usually dive with have the same configuration, though some of the brands are different. Surely the color and brand can't be an issue.

Generalizing again. Besides I thought you wouldn't dive with non-DIR divers, in which case it shouldn't be an issue for you.

And now a serious question. With the hose wrapped underneath a light canister, then across your chest and around the back of your neck, isn't it difficult for a panicked diver to pull it away from you? Do masks ever get knocked off or hoses hung up?

Marc

as i mentioned in my earlier post, when i talk about other divers gear setups i always speak about what i have actually seen on the beach, i am on the beach a lot i assure you. And of course there are always exceptions. But most of what i see is far from standardized with an occassional really BAD setup

I never said i wouldnt dive with 'non-DIR' divers, i merely mentioned in an earlier post that if i were to go wreck or cavediving i'd choose DIR buddies but for the run of the mill 60' rec dive i am not as picky, dont forget i have a LOT to learn myself

as for your question, a panicked diver doesnt 'appear' out of nowhere so i will have plenty of time to take the reg out of my mouth and hand it to them. I have had my mask pulled off because my hose got hung up once but that was MY fault because when setting up my gear the hose wasnt routed properly to begin with. If my hoses are routed the way they should be a diver can pull the hose from my mouth without pulling my mask off.

 

[Uncle Pug]

FLL Diver once bubbled...
panicked diver

No actually the deployment of the long hose is rather straight forward (figuratively and literally) in a DIR setting. The OOA signal is given and half the time the observant DIR partner will already have anticipated the need and the regulator will already be extended toward the OOA diver.

Will the mask be ripped off? ... no... since the DIR diver is not wearing a mask-remover aka snorkel.

All it takes is a dip of the head and 5' of hose is available to the OOA while the donor calmly slips his bungeed backup into his mouth conveintly located now just a fraction of an inch away.

Unhooking the hose from beneath the canister is the next step and is rather automatic... extending the hose now to the full 7' and the OOA diver takes over managing the hose while the donor checks his SPG and calls the exit.

Now if a DIR diver were diving with a panic prone non-DIR diver then it would be incumbent upon the DIR diver to be aware of the non-DIR diver's needs and provide the panic stricken non-DIR diver with the long hose reg (but not the full 7') before the panic stricken non-DIR had a chance to start grabbing for things.

But lets say for sake of your argument that the DIR diver was asleep on the job and the panic stricken non-DIR diver came upon him or her unawares and grabbed the regulator... no problem... a simple dip of the head releases the hose and the fight insues...

But you see, the problem is coming from the panic stricken non-DIR diver and I suppose the scenarios that one could invent are endless....