Aerogel, ultimate insulator for diving?

[formula1mb@aol.com]

I read an article about Aerogel, sometimes called "solid smoke" and how Champion is working on jackets and equipment to use for mountain climbing. From the sound of it, it could be an awesome material for diving to finally allow a thinner, more flexible wetsuit or undergarment that actually keeps really warm without the bulk. In the article it mentions how a lot of people actually complained about it keeping them too warm. Here's the article below, would love to hear if anyone is using it for any diving exposure suits or planning to in the near future:

Man to climb Mount Everest in ?Supersuit? - Consumer news- msnbc.com

Robert

 

[TSandM]

Last I heard, the estimate for cost of an Aerogel undergarment was in the $5000 range. It would limit the appeal, I think . . .

 

[formula1mb@aol.com]

Well if you read the article, they've brought the costs down considerably since they've expanded manufacturing and refined the process. Obviously if it was 5k no one would buy it but if the cost is reasonable now and they offer something for a couple of hundred, could be interesting.

 

[formula1mb@aol.com]

From the article:

Aspen, based in Northborough, Mass., lowered costs by opening up to new industrial markets, making its manufacturing more efficient by improving chemistry and lowering costs for its raw material. It has also expanded manufacturing, opening a plant in Rhode Island in 2008. It now plans to double the plant's size.

That has brought Aerogel prices down from $50 to $100 per square foot in 2001 to 2003 to just $1.50 to $3 per square foot, Young said.

 

[Gombessa]

Well if you read the article, they've brought the costs down considerably since they've expanded manufacturing and refined the process. Obviously if it was 5k no one would buy it but if the cost is reasonable now and they offer something for a couple of hundred, could be interesting.

I could totally see people paying $5k for a jacket, especially for something like a summit attempt. Getting the raw price reduced by an order of magnitude is excellent. I've also heard of it being used in housing insulation products.

The last time I held a shard of aerogel, it was very stiff and brittle (kind of like a meringue). I wonder how well it stands up to pressure (for use in as a suit undergarment).

 

[piikki]

Well, I had certainly never heard of such a thing. I would think that the price would not be a problem seeing how it's developing. Many divers who are willing to put money in for so many things would certainly dish out, say, $1000 for a guaranteed toasty undergarment. They quoted jacket for $500 so that's where I pulled the $1000, and it seems the prices are going down.

However, guaranteed function seems to be a dream still. Overheating is way more serious problem for a diver than a regular hiker. If letting water in won't help and you cannot surface yet, you are in serious trouble. Like said I do not know about the product and that article does not say about other qualities - how it would fair under water.

That said if they made it safe, I would certainly pay more for something thin and simple like that. It would be preferable to convoluted electric vest systems, heat packs, argon systems or thick multilayer drysuit-blowing solutions - or not diving at all because one keeps on freezing.

 

[Gombessa]

Overheating is way more serious problem for a diver than a regular hiker. If letting water in won't help and you cannot surface yet, you are in serious trouble. Like said I do not know about the product and that article does not say about other qualities - how it would fair under water.

Maybe, but to me that sounds both very hypothetical and very unlikely, at least in waters cold enough to be talking about superior drysuit insulation. I don't know how you NE guys roll, but where I am, nobody has ever gotten out of the water here saying "that was a great dive, but I wish I was just a bit colder."

Overheating before the dive however, can be a serious problem, especially in the summer. 80-90 degree air temperature combined with 50 degree water means thick insulation and plenty of sweat while getting geared up!

 

[piikki]

Maybe, but to me that sounds both very hypothetical and very unlikely, at least in waters cold enough to be talking about superior drysuit insulation. I don't know how you NE guys roll, but where I am, nobody has ever gotten out of the water here saying "that was a great dive, but I wish I was just a bit colder."

Overheating before the dive however, can be a serious problem, especially in the summer. 80-90 degree air temperature combined with 50 degree water means thick insulation and plenty of sweat while getting geared up!

Yes, I hear what you are saying - especially about the pre-dive overheating. That is dang near hazardous in hot weather when dressing for 40-50F waters.

I personally have NEVER surfaced from a cold water dive announcing that I am sweating but I have heard some weirdos saying that I have gotten cozy warm sometimes when I have worn very heavy undies to accommodate the third thermocline, and then spent long time in the first one in the end. The temp change was about 35 degrees between them then, so I can fathom that someone who does way more serious dives than I do, could get heated up during deco stops on those types of conditions. One would think the deficiency would be greater by then too (to catch up) but then again I know some people are hot water boilers too when I certainly am the opposite.

Another benefit this possible (undeveloped) new garment might offer is possible easier donning (no bulk? to slow down process) for those days. I'll pay extra for any minutes off from getting in the water on hot days in addition to not having to buy bigger dry suit to accommodate winter undies.

 

[Camerone]

If you want a good, serious discussion from folks who have used this in dive undies (of which I am one), see this thread here:

Hot Undies @ The Deco Stop