AED Use in Diving Emergencies

[SC_Hoaty]

I'll ask the medical folks active in this thread to correct me, and present the "real" information. I was instructed in AED use, and the fellow teaching the course emphasized that the AED was NOT the same as the "paddles" in the ER. He stated the energy delivered was limited, and it was designed for a small subset of cardiac incidents (although it was the subset the required this type of intervention quickly).

Corrections?

 

[boulderjohn]

Are they unable or unwilling? I find it difficult to believe a legitimate dive op can't afford 2k, for a device that could save the life of a passenger. If the ops margins are that tight, they are more than likely a failing business.

Not long ago when a diver was lost in Cozumel, I argued that simple SMBs should be mandatory. If divers did not bring their own, the operator should have one on hand for a cheap rental or for purchase. At an operator discount, they should be able to get good ones for $40 easily. Sell a few and rent the rest for even as little as $1 a day and the whole operator supply would be paid for in no time.

Well, no sirree, according to the response I got in the thread. Providing a SMB for customers that don't have one would absolutely bankrupt a dive operation, I was assured. Was I out of my mind?

So, a $2,000 AED might take not be in the budget, either.

 

[SC_Hoaty]

Not long ago when a diver was lost in Cozumel, I argued that simple SMBs should be mandatory. If divers did not bring their own, the operator should have one on hand for a cheap rental or for purchase. At an operator discount, they should be able to get good ones for $40 easily. Sell a few and rent the rest for even as little as $1 a day and the whole operator supply would be paid for in no time.

Well, no sirree, according to the response I got in the thread. Providing a SMB for customers that don't have one would absolutely bankrupt a dive operation, I was assured. Was I out of my mind?

So, a $2,000 AED might take not be in the budget, either.

I can imagine $2000 would bankrupt some Coz operations.

 

[USdiver1]

I can imagine $2000 would bankrupt some Coz operations.

If that's the case, I wouldn't feel safe diving with such an undercapitalized operation. Might as well go out in a panga (canoe) with a gallon of cold water, some limes and a speargun for hunting my lunch.

 

[peterbj7]

It's not just a question of the dive operation having one, they need to have one for every boat that goes out and one for the dive center. Starts to get extremely pricey. And these things don't last long in the marine environment. A year, two years tops.

 

[MMM]

And these things don't last long in the marine environment. A year, two years tops.

I was wondering about that. I know how often I have to replace anything metal at my Cozumel house.

 

[Reck Diver]

It's not just a question of the dive operation having one, they need to have one for every boat that goes out and one for the dive center. Starts to get extremely pricey. And these things don't last long in the marine environment. A year, two years tops.

Frankly, everything about a boat is pricey. Fuel on the water is over 4.50 a gallon, labor at local marinas is close to 100.00/hr. Engines break down even with meticulous routine maintenance. If your business is based on an operational boat, and you can't afford a 2k hit, you are in the wrong business.

DD I have asked around in the past and know one could name a local dive op with an AED.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Frankly, everything about a boat is pricey. Fuel on the water is over 4.50 a gallon, labor at local marinas is close to 100.00/hr. Engines break down even with meticulous routine maintenance. If your business is based on an operational boat, and you can't afford a 2k hit, you are in the wrong business.

DD I have asked around in the past and know one could name a local dive op with an AED.

My friend has one and every damn day we load it onto the boat and take it off. It is kept sealed in a water tight, padded, pelican box. I know that he has had to replace the expensive battery once, but that was associated with age rather than use on a boat, I believe.

When a boat costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and fuel and insurance is many thousands per year, the cost of an AED amortized over a few years would not seem capable of breaking the bank. I remember a long time ago not all dive boats carried emergency oxygen, now it is pretty much standard and an operator could be considered negligent if it was needed and not available.

Possibly in the future, an AED will also be considered necessary as the diving population ages and the AED devices become more common.

 

[Reck Diver]

My friend has one and every damn day we load it onto the boat and take it off. It is kept sealed in a water tight, padded, pelican box. I know that he has had to replace the expensive battery once, but that was associated with age rather than use on a boat, I believe.

When a boat costs hundreds of thousands of dollars and fuel and insurance is many thousands per year, the cost of an AED amortized over a few years would not seem capable of breaking the bank. I remember a long time ago not all dive boats carried emergency oxygen, now it is pretty much standard and an operator could be considered negligent if it was needed and not available.

Possibly in the future, an AED will also be considered necessary as the diving population ages and the AED devices become more common.

100% agreement here

 

[tracydr]

I actually saw the crew of the Narcosis taking the training on AED's about 8 months ago, so my expectation is that the initial report of the AED on board should be accurate. Any of the major dive boats in Palm beach could afford the AED.
I still question whether it is absurd to "mandate" this, because this would begin another cascade of the public expecting to be taken care of by others, and many more mandated safety measures or expensive medical equipment.
Maybe we should mandate a Magnetic resonance Machine to look for barotrauma or vascular tears from possible embolisms.
Each of us needs to take care of themselves nutritionally and with exercise, and each of us is responsible for our health when we engage in snow skiing, cycling, rock climbing, kayaking, or scuba diving. When I go Kayaking, there is not going to be an AED device anywhere if someone screws up and gets sucked into a hydraulic. I suppose the outfitter should have an AED station next to every class three or class four rapid, just in case of a drowning event?

Diving is not watching TV. It should be an adventure sport, like kayaking.



Leaving this particular case...and generalizing to the entire American diving population......

For the typical accident where the AED is needed, better dive training would have been the best way to protect the life, and the AED would be the ignorant path of trying to fix something that should have never been broken. I don't buy that unknown heart conditions are the principle need for AED's....I think the drowning events must be far more prevalent.....and if in fact the heart conditions are more prevalent, then the agencies are retarded for not mandating real cardio exams at intervals every few years.... I am not pushing for this either, because I keep myself healthy and fit, and would have nothing but disdain for forced medical exams...I would sign the release instead.


Better dive training, meaning better instructors, and better mandatory skills and real testing is needed... and far more mandated skills in the ocean for ANY diver with any level of certification.
This would also mean recognizing the students who are actually "Never-Evers", and NOT giving them a c-card. I have seen so many Never-evers on boats from Palm beach to Key Largo, it is shocking to me that we don't have a dozen new dead divers every week. Instead, boat crews get launched into weekly heroics, that are forced on them by the poor instructional guidelines mandated by an economy driven certification system( that should be skills driven).

Not really getting how better dive training will prevent v-fib from a heart attack.