Advice on Guided Dives

[Altamira]

Both you and your buddy must hang together as one on this, as my experience was that even when I wanted to turn around, my daughter trusted the dive guide more than me! I fought against leaving her below, even as the dive guide was telling me to surface alone! Yep, there are more weird experiences than can be counted!
Also, if the dive guide has the flag, and you have not got your own "safety sausage" DSMB, the boat will find the DM and not you, which could also happen if you get separated by accident.

You and your buddy, not the dive guide, are responsible for the safety of both of you. That being said, you and your daughter need to have a serious conversation about the responsibilities of being a buddy, including ascending together, and insuring you both get back on the boat safely. There are countless examples of a diver being sent up by themselves only to have a major problem before getting on the boat. When I dive with my wife or grandson, they both fully understand that when one of us wants to thumb the dive or ascend for any reason, we go up together, and I don't give a damn about what the DM thinks or wants us to do. Both of you should have a deployable safety sausage and reel, and know how to use them. Leaving your safety in the hands of a DM or guide is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Bubblesong]

You and your buddy, not the dive guide, are responsible for the safety of both of you. That being said, you and your daughter need to have a serious conversation about the responsibilities of being a buddy, .

Dude, this is my teenage DAUGHTER so "serious conversations about responsibility" up the wazoo here! And she wants to keep diving with the DM as her buddy, so I shall have to let her know that maybe she should look after her elderly and feeble mother all the way back to the boat. As it is, I sent her off on her next dive with a different dive instructor, just the two of them. Well, next dive vacation, I shall try the "stick with your Mom-Buddy all the way back to the boat", and see how that goes.

 

[Altamira]

Dude, this is my teenage DAUGHTER so "serious conversations about responsibility" up the wazoo here! And she wants to keep diving with the DM as her buddy, so I shall have to let her know that maybe she should look after her elderly and feeble mother all the way back to the boat. As it is, I sent her off on her next dive with a different dive instructor, just the two of them. Well, next dive vacation, I shall try the "stick with your Mom-Buddy all the way back to the boat", and see how that goes.

@Bubblesong. I feel your pain, because my grandson is also a teenager who typically thinks everyone that is not his school pal or a coach does not know what they are talking about. After several instances of him not being where I told him to be in the water, having to chase him down and return him to his buddy position, we finally had to have that "responsibility conversation." The bottom line for me was that as long as he is in the water with me, and I have to sign his dive waiver, he is my responsibility, and I am his, and neither of us wants to be in a position where one of us has to tell his mother that her son or father was injured or lost because of irresponsible behavior. Perhaps more important to him was finally coming to the understanding that his dive training, equipment, and diving were on my dime, but that could change in the blink of an eye. Since he loves to dive, but could not begin to afford the hobby, he finally saw the light. There is a big advantage in being an old guy with the money.

 

[DogDiver]

Try explaining this to your cave diving son. Cavern cert at 14. Intro cert at 16. Full cave at 18. You have to be willing to leave your dad in an underwater cave after doing a lost buddy search. When your gas allotment is done, you have to leave. Better one cave fatality than two. This conversation is completely understood before he got signed off on the certification.

 

[mcpowell]

My son and I had a much less traumatic occasion. I thought he was too cold when we were diving a spring in FL. He kept giving me the ok signal, so I just kept an eye on him. Later, after surfacing, we were talking about it. He insisted he was ok, but that he was a little cool. So we came up with our on system. If either of us think the other is not okay, and we need to emphasize a signal, the middle finger precedes the hand signal we are insistent upon. This lets the other one know, “I don’t care what you think, we’re doing this...”

We haven’t used it yet, but it’s good to know.

 

[The Chairman]

AS Jackie Gleason once opined, "What we have heeyah, is a failyuh to commyunicate!"

You were nervous. Most of us were. You exceeded your limits. Again, most of us do until we learn better. Other than letting your guide know what your limits are before the dive, there is no magic wand. It's the only way and it's a two way street. He asked you to tell him when you were down to 100 bar. Awesome. Did you ask him what signal he wanted you to use? See? It's not that you have to "take charge": you just have to set your limits and express them to your buddy and your guide. You don't want to go below 20 meters? Tell them that. You might want to tell them that before you arrive at that 30 meter dive site. It's not hard, but you do have to assert yourself just a bit.

However, if your guide ever says "trust me", call the dive or make other arrangements. It's not a thing you want anyone to say when you're about to splash.

 

[Altamira]

Try explaining this to your cave diving son. Cavern cert at 14. Intro cert at 16. Full cave at 18. You have to be willing to leave your dad in an underwater cave after doing a lost buddy search. When your gas allotment is done, you have to leave. Better one cave fatality than two. This conversation is completely understood before he got signed off on the certification.

Yes, and that is a huge chuck of responsibility to take on as a teenage or parent. Knowing how dangerous cave diving can be, I would never assume responsibility for taking my teenage grandson into that diving environment. If he wants to pursue that type of diving, he is going to have to do that on his own dime and own time after his 18th birthday, and I would do my best to talk him out of it.

 

[The Chairman]

This lets the other one know, “I don’t care what you think, we’re doing this...”

The thumb is non-negotiable. Once that's given, both buddies head to the safety stop. I use the middle finger to denote when something is broken. Yes, sometimes that's my buddy.

 

[boulderjohn]

The procedure for a low on air diver continuing a dive on the guide’s octo is something done by dive ops in certain parts of the world.

In the cases in which I have seen this done as a standard procedure, it is NOT done as it was in this case. In those cases I have seen, the first diver in a group to reach a certain gas level goes on the DM's alternate, but that point is NOT when the diver is truly low on air. It is BEFORE the diver is truly low on air. That way the dive time for the group is extended. When the second diver reaches that point, the first low on air diver gets his or her regulator back and the group begins a normal ascent, and everyone has plenty of gas for that ascent.

 

[TMHeimer]

I have never liked that idea of extending dive time by sharing one's octo--dive guide or just your buddy's. I've been on a tropical "guided dive" once. Buddy teams in order one behind the other. Details not important, one guy screwed it up. I began diving after OW with "benign" shallow shore dives with my newbie buddy. But we were in charge of ourselves from day 1, usually with no others even around. Not being, critical as many new divers begin by going tropical and leaving at least some stuff up to the dive guide. I would have felt unsettled going that route.

Not to rehash an old topic TOO much, but seems there may be some immaturity on the part of several teenage divers in recent posts. But yeah, Jr. cert. at age TWELVE "depends on the maturity level"...... I could learn a lot from my 15 year old grandson, as he knows everything.