Advice on first dive computer (Suunto Zoop?)

[KenGordon]

No. But if I did deco dives -- as opposed to maybe overstaying the NDL a little once in a blue moon -- I'd want a computer whose numbers match the ones I get from my gas planning. I think up until gas planning comes along all algorithms are more or less equal, but once it does I'm with @scubadada: some are way more equal than others.

I did Scapa Flow on a Zoop. That involves planned deco on most dives, picking optimum mix for the depth - typically 30 to 45m in the morning and 20 to 40m in the afternoon. Seven of the nine on that boat were definitely on Suuntos. When I do it next in October it will be similar, although I'll have a Petrel as well as a Suunto and there will be at least one Mares Puck.

Suunto provides comprehensive gas planning with their PC software. It is free, you can even try it out before buying a Suunto computer. It allows the planning of multiple dives per day over many days. You could try out 5 dives a day for a week if you liked.

In the UK Suunto is by far the most popular brand. Here we mostly do deep, dark, square wreck dives. Mostly two dives a day. But we do also go on holiday to places where four dives a day is normal.

Why chose a Suunto?

I find the UI pretty easy to use by and large. This is a personal thing of course and I have been using them for years so I am biased.

It is an actual manufacturer, not a badge engineered product from a marketer of strangely shaped rubber products.

They have been making dive computers for a long time.

They have never accidentally assumed you continue breathing your bottom mix for the entire surface interval.

Everyone has them, probably 80 to 90% market share here. For guided dives the likelihood is that your guide has one or your buddy has one,

I don't personally know anyone who has lost a dive due to one failing, although there reports on here of failures.

Three years on one battery is likely. You can change the battery easily. You can find batteries easily.

If confused by one a new diver will be able to find someone who knows how to work it.

Suunto really are better placed than some new diver to make decisions about decompression stategy.

 

[dmaziuk]

I did Scapa Flow on a Zoop. That involves planned deco on most dives, picking optimum mix for the depth - typically 30 to 45m in the morning and 20 to 40m in the afternoon. Seven of the nine on that boat were definitely on Suuntos. When I do it next in October it will be similar, although I'll have a Petrel as well as a Suunto and there will be at least one Mares Puck.

Suunto's inner workings are Wienke-based magic, but at least they put an NDL table down to 45m in the manual. My Leonardo's manual is far more skimpy, it doesn't even say what it'll do if I exceed its "algorithm depth 40m" other that the warranty will expire.

I do find it appalling that the closest you can get to an open algorithm under for $500 is the "based on ZH-L16c modified to support deep stops" PZ+ -- but Oceanic/Hollis also give you the NDL table and theirs go to 57m (DG03).

 

[drrich2]

I appreciate Ken's thoughtful post. A few comments:

1.) You can use software to plan for 5 dives per day if you know their profiles in advance. A lot of guide-led Caribbean & Florida Keys diving isn't known to the customer until they're on the boat. Max. planned & average depths, dive times...

2.) In Florida & the Caribbean, a lot of the diving is multi-level reef diving, rather than square profiles, and not dark or cold.

3.) In this region they are common but don't dominate as strongly, so having someone else show you how to use it on the boat, or having the same computer as your guide, isn't quite as likely I'd think.

In a 2015 thread, Can Suuntos be adjusted to not be as conservative?,' Mselenaous posted:

"While the Suuntos are generally conservative, you can change it to be MORE conservative than it already is.
The only model with the MORE AND the LESS conservative settings it the HelO2, the tech trimix computer. On the -2 setting, it isn't too far off from the Oceanics.

Netdoc asked the Suunto Engineers from Finland why their computers were so conservative. Netdoc's point was that the divers on Suuntos were usually causing everyone to end the dives early or would incur deco when the other divers did not. The response he got was (image a heavy Finnish accent) was, "eeet eees verry cuooold een Feenlaund, vee must be moost conservative". About 6 months later, Netdoc received a Hel02 in the mail to try out. And set at -2, it ran very close to the Oceanic.

So, "eeef ees verry cuoold, be moore conservative". And if in FL where it's warm, dive long."

 

[outofofficebrb]

Netdoc asked the Suunto Engineers from Finland why their computers were so conservative. Netdoc's point was that the divers on Suuntos were usually causing everyone to end the dives early or would incur deco when the other divers did not. The response he got was (image a heavy Finnish accent) was, "eeet eees verry cuooold een Feenlaund, vee must be moost conservative". About 6 months later, Netdoc received a Hel02 in the mail to try out. And set at -2, it ran very close to the Oceanic.

So, "eeef ees verry cuoold, be moore conservative". And if in FL where it's warm, dive long."

Eeeeeet eees verrry cuuuooooold eeeeen Feeeeenlaund, veeee must beee moooost conservative.

 

[KenGordon]

I appreciate Ken's thoughtful post. A few comments:
1.) You can use software to plan for 5 dives per day if you know their profiles in advance. A lot of guide-led Caribbean & Florida Keys diving isn't known to the customer until they're on the boat. Max. planned & average depths, dive times...

That point was an answer to the claims that you cannot pre plan with any algorithm not available in the open.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I just returned from 2 weeks in Bali and noticed many divemasters using Zoops, as I have in other popular destinations worldwide. I am sure the Zoop is popular because it's inexpensive. The divemasters made sure our profiles were conservative and our surface intervals generous (e.g., 1-2 hours), with up to 4 dives per day. It seems to be a very popular computer for this kind of relaxed vacation-style diving.

I used a Zoop as a back-up for my Suunto D6 for a while and liked it. I chose Suunto over other brands because when I was a less experienced diver I liked the idea that Suunto's super-secret RGBM algorithm implementation MIGHT keep me safer. I now understand there is no real evidence that it does or does not, and that if I want to be safer I can just keep myself farther away from NDLs on any computer--dive shallower and/or shorter. So, on one hand, if a diver likes the Suunto's features, I see no reason to discourage the diver from choosing it. On the other hand, if the diver likes the features of some other computer, I see no reason to encourage the diver to choose a Suunto over the other computer.

 

[dmaziuk]

That point was an answer to the claims that you cannot pre plan with any algorithm not available in the open.

I'm sure somebody somewhere made that claim for some reason... My objection is that my gas planning will match my computer if and only if I do all my planning in Suunto Dive Mangler for as long as we both shall live. And I don't want to -- I don't like DM, I may want to try subsurface planner today, or OSTC planner tomorrow. I'm afraid of making that sort of commitment at this point in my life.

And besides, I am the customer, so when I want open algorithm, I am always right. Ergo, any vendor not giving me that is wrong.

 

[KenGordon]

I'm sure somebody somewhere made that claim for some reason... My objection is that my gas planning will match my computer if and only if I do all my planning in Suunto Dive Mangler for as long as we both shall live. And I don't want to -- I don't like DM, I may want to try subsurface planner today, or OSTC planner tomorrow. I'm afraid of making that sort of commitment at this point in my life.

And besides, I am the customer, so when I want open algorithm, I am always right. Ergo, any vendor not giving me that is wrong.

Then you have no choice but the OSTC. The rest do not give you the code so you still cannot find out what is actually going on. You can assume that Multideco and a Shearwater line up but that is an assumption.

Your planning is unlikely to match your actual dive. Depths turn our differently, it takes more or less time to get around or whatever. These differences are likely to be as significant as the differences in algorithm. I am happy to plan dives on BSAC 88 tables (which are claimed to be dangerously aggressive in the same way that the Suunto is claimed to be stupidly conservative) and dive them on a Zoop or whatever. The aggressive square vs conservative multilevel/unrounded real depth seem to come out about the same.

 

[lbussell]

The Zoop is great. It's reliable, easy to read and you can replace the battery yourself.

 

[Ronbo01]

am returning after a period away.
My wife is getting certified and I am doing a new certification.
We are buying all new equipment and live in South Florida.
We will be doing Florida and Caribbean dives.

We are looking at Scuba Pro and Aqualung gear BC's, regulators,fins computers....everything.

Aqualung has far cheaper pricing due to discounting but we are still leaning to top of the line Scuba Pro.
Seems strange the deep discounts on Aqualung but not Scuba Pro.???!!
Opinions???

And a really key question about dive op of line computers
Which
Scuba Pro Mantis 2
Oceanic
Aqualung

We plan to use only the wrist computer and have heard some loose the pairing more than others

We appreciate any help