Advanced Open Water Disappointment

[Belzelbub]

This is all I did. Paid for the card, got the cert without a single dive.

That sounds like my first OW course. Not a single OW dive per the definition of a dive. I was young at the time, and didn’t report it to PADI. Now, it would do no good. Class was a long time ago. Shop is still in business under the same name, but I’m certain my instructor is no longer instructing.

For those that have more recent substandard instruction, I would encourage reporting it to PADI. Maybe they’ll do something, maybe they won’t. If not reported, PADI definitely won’t. If yours is the only report, I wouldn’t expect much to happen. If it establishes a pattern, then they may be more inclined to do something.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wi ll say this, poor instruction for the amounts they charge for classes in not acceptable.

One of the problems is identifying the meaning of "they." It is easy to equate the instructor with the "they" who charged the money. In by far most cases, a dive operation charges the high fee and then pays the instructor a pittance for doing the actual work. They may also assign working conditions that virtually force the instructor to provide a poor experience.

I believe that is the weak link in the system. The instructor who wants to keep his or her job, poor as that pay may be, must work under the requirements of the employer. When those requirements violate standards, the conscientious instructor's choice is between employment and unemployment. As the director of instruction where I worked told me, "instructors are a dime a dozen," meaning that if you don't like the way things are, you can be replaced in a heartbeat.

In the instructor to Instructor forum a few years ago, I wondered why the overwhelming majority of the instructors identified as being expelled in the PADI professional journal were Asian. A knowledgeable person told me privately that the dive shops there had no agency affiliations. They hire agency-certified instructors and require them to violate standards as they work. When things go south, the instructor suffers the punishment, and the shop blithely hires a replacement.

 

[wgw04024]

I'll try to be brief....

My OW class sucked. Classroom and pool dive was ok, check outs were terrible. It was super cold, the dm wanted to just get through it, they were literally 5 min dives.

My AOW a year later, after doing only 1 dive between the two, was great. Went to Key Largo and Key West with a shop for a week, and did my AOW with the owner. I feel so fortunate how much he taught me and how fun it was. My very first ocean dive was the Vandenberg, and it was crystal clear with zero current. I was so hooked!

Cozumel, those guys are hero's AND cowboys down there. LOL My only trip there (so far), there was a couple, him from kansas, her from columbia (wowza!). I'm not sure if she was even certified, but the guide buddy breathed with her for a while so as not to cut the dive short. Even though she was inexperienced (to put it mildly) he was completely at ease managing her.

In closing, two points.... 1. you are responsible for your own training. Where diving can be hazardous, take the choosing of training professionals seriously. I realize you don't know what you don't know. 2. Finding this forum is a wealth of information, where I think I've learned more about diving than anywhere else by a long shot.

 

[RGatl]

I agree with everyone who has emphasized that the quality of the instructor matters more than the content -- especially for AOW. I also think that the student shares some responsibility with the instructor in his/her own education and training. The expectation of being spoon-fed all the critical material needed for safe (and fun) diving while going through the certification process is a bit misguided. I'm not directing the comment at OP--more of a general reflection on some of the courses I have taken. In the end, there is no substitute for practice and repetition of skills. For what it's worth, I waited 3-4 years with pretty regular diving after completing my AOW before doing my rescue course. I had a phenomenal instructor for rescue and found the experience more helpful than any of my other courses with PADI for my confidence and proficiency as a recreational diver.

 

[tarponchik]

Well, aren't you special.

Yeah, I knew how to use compass even before I started diving.

 

[scoufr]

Infuriating read… sorry about your experience. Then again, you seem to have your head screwed on right so; now you got your AOW, use it wisely — if something doesn’t feel right, then mostly it isn’t. Use your own judgement, and keep practising your skills every dive.
I always tell people that what I like most with the diving community is that it’s the opposite of macho-BS: safety first, and if you see someone that looks apprehensive, lend’em a hand and tell them its ok to only go where you feel ok. Ive been lucky though, most of my certs. were with good instructors, and my own DC in Sounio Athens, Greece used to be run by an amazing ol’ sea-dog that held up really high standards. You flunked… you flunked.. end of story, but in a nice way with plenty free coaching and support until it got right, eventually.

 

[Micko1974]

I think you're right in that some of this falls on the shop, but maybe it's more a lack of oversight. The instructor was new and showed a lack of skills/experience in teaching, organization and preparation. He/she seemed OK dealing with issues during the actual dive. Probably needed to do a couple of classes with a more seasoned instructor present to provide feedback......and that's one place where the shop failed.

Yes, it certainly sounds like the scuba instructor could do with some team teaching opportunities with a more experienced instructor. Scheduling and time management of a group is so important when you only have a limited amount of time to dive.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

“It’s all about the instructor”
This is all you hear.
Tell us all how a newbie or someone unfamiliar with diving and dive instruction is supposed to know who a good instructor is or how to find one.
What, ask the shop? Do you think they are going to tell you that their instructors suck?
Ask other divers? What if they don’t know any other divers? What if all the other divers they know suck and were instructed by sucky instructors?
All of you make it sound so simple and almost go as far as saying it’s the students fault for not doing their homework.
Clue: THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING FOR!!! THEY’RE NEW!!!
Imagine how it makes someone feel when after they take a course they come here and explain that they think they might have not had the best course. People pile on and rant and rave about this and that, how they got screwed, turn them in!, blah blah blah. By that time the place already got their money and the student had no idea what they were sold. And then all they hear is “it’s the instructor not the agency” or something to that effect. How the hell were they supposed to prevent this before it happens?
All of it just go in circles and nothing ever changes.

Sorry about the rant (well not really) but I feel better now.

 

[Angelo Farina]

“It’s all about the instructor”
This is all you hear.
Tell us all how a newbie or someone unfamiliar with diving and dive instruction is supposed to know who a good instructor is or how to find one.
What, ask the shop? Do you think they are going to tell you that their instructors suck?
Ask other divers? What if they don’t know any other divers? What if all the other divers they know suck and were instructed by sucky instructors?
All of you make it sound so simple and almost go as far as saying it’s the students fault for not doing their homework.
Clue: THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE LOOKING FOR!!! THEY’RE NEW!!!
Imagine how it makes someone feel when after they take a course they come here and explain that they think they might have not had the best course. People pile on and rant and rave about this and that, how they got screwed, turn them in!, blah blah blah. By that time the place already got their money and the student had no idea what they were sold. And then all they hear is “it’s the instructor not the agency” or something to that effect. How the hell were they supposed to prevent this before it happens?
All of it just go in circles and nothing ever changes.

Sorry about the rant (well not really) but I feel better now.

In my opinion the starting error is relying on a shop.
The goal of a shop is making money selling equipment.
There is an evident conflict of interest if they also organise courses.
My suggestion for someone wanting to begin scuba diving is to search for local clubs and ask them.
If no club in the area, use Facebook or other social media for getting in contact with local divers and ask them.
If there is a club, there are good chances they organise courses at much smaller cost than for-profit agencies.
If instead you have to rely on the local divers community, follow their suggestions: they will point you to good instructors, possibly working outside any shop.
Or to some serious dive operator, providing both guided dives and tuition (these are easily found in nice diving locations, but of course do not exist far away from diving spots).
There is just one case when I suggest to buy a cert card in a shop: you are scheduled for a nice tropical vacation and you need to get the card in a weekend just before leaving.
But do not expect to be trained by a shop. They are just selling you the card, taking barely the minimal effort allowed by the agency issuing the card.
I am not saying this is a fraud, there can still be a reasonable value/cost ratio in this purchase. Simply one should not expect to get proper tuition, when you are just buying a card from a seller.

 

[Edward3c]

In my opinion the starting error is relying on a shop.
[Snip]
My suggestion for someone wanting to begin scuba diving is to search for local clubs and ask them.

I see more and more shops forming 'clubs'. Which are in reality a captive audience for the shop to sell more courses.