Accident & Incident Discussion - Northernone - aka Cameron Donaldson

[Dominik_E]

Yes of course, everyone has to make their own evaluation of what risk is acceptable for which subjective benefit. I am just saying that I very much like any educational statement to be phrased in the relevant context. I am against anyone saying that the risk in scuba diving was zero, as this is wrong. But I am also against simply saying the risk was "high", as "high" without context conveys something that is also wrong. The risk is high compared to the risk of air travel. It is high compared to the risk of playing chess. But it is low compared to the risk of riding a motorbike, or alpinism. Context is everything.

 

[pepperbelly]

It isn’t that diving is especially risky.
It is very unforgiving of error and the consequences can be severe.

I would much prefer to die doing something I like rather than stay safe at home and be bored to death.

 

[Dominik_E]

Interesting. Myself, I often happen to think that driving my car is very unforgiving compared to diving, as in the former activity a split second of distraction can have irrecoverable consequences...

 

[CT-Rich]

I worry more about driving home from a day of diving than I do during the dives themselves. I am tired and traveling at 65mph. Other cats are around traveling at similar speeds, a momentary lapse in judgement can be fatal. 33,000 fatalities a year is a pretty big number and has touched me much more frequently than deaths from scuba.

I stopped doing 3 dives a day (finishing with a night dive) unless I have someone to share the driving with. I was creating an unjustifiable risk.

 

[JackD342]

Interesting. Myself, I often happen to think that driving my car is very unforgiving compared to diving, as in the former activity a split second of distraction can have irrecoverable consequences...

Probably a good metaphor (simile?) here between driving and diving, as each has enough variation along a sliding scale of "risk" and NOT a single one size fits all evaluation of risk.
My driving risk tends to increase with added speed, traffic congestion, non-familiarity of roads, challenging driving conditions, etc. Far more forgiving of errors when just going a few blocks on side streets to the corner store than driving a highway for the first time in a new and unfamiliar city. Same with diving relatively shallow depths, with a buddy, clear warm water, etc.

 

[pepperbelly]

I wasn’t comparing diving to other activities. Driving on a freeway is worse, but due more to other driver’s bad judgement and lack of skills that are out of my control.
Errors when diving such as not watching the SPG and running low on air, not paying attention to ascent rate, holding your breath while ascending, blowing a deco obligation, etc. can all have serious consequences.
Poor judgement can hurt. It can in other activities too but we arevtalking about diving.
Fortunately a little common sense makes diving safe.

 

[Dominik_E]

It may of course be different for other people, but at least for me the concept of risk only becomes a useful quantity when I can compare it to other things in life.

 

[ReefHound]

I just find it really odd how experienced industry professionals downplay risks in Scuba just to make a buck and stop at nothing to blame the individuals for their accidents.

Essentially they are right. There are risks but statistically speaking those risks are very small. And most accidents are due to diver error, which doesn't mean the diver is incompetent but human. Who amongst us has never made a mistake or taken a risk or went against our better judgment? Like with plane crashes, pilots can fly every day their entire lives and never be in one, but when it happens to you statistics mean nothing.

This dive was a much higher risk dive. Solo, with a scooter, twin side mount, beyond the recreational limits in an area known for swift currents. He was competent to make this dive, but that did completely mitigate all the risk. His mother, who was diving in the same location, within recreational limits, successfully completed her dive.

Agreed. Higher risks can be managed with proper gear, training, and experience but you are operating on a thinner margin for error. You can have the best gear and the gear can still fail. You can have the most experience but you haven't experienced every possible scenario. You can have the best training and fail to follow it.

My driving risk tends to increase with added speed, traffic congestion, non-familiarity of roads, challenging driving conditions, etc. Far more forgiving of errors when just going a few blocks on side streets to the corner store than driving a highway for the first time in a new and unfamiliar city. Same with diving relatively shallow depths, with a buddy, clear warm water, etc.

And then there's "technical" driving - going around the track at 200mph plus in traffic - where even the slightest error can be fatally unforgiving.

 

[onewiththeocean]

I follow a Public Safety Diver group on fb (Cameron was a also member). This PSD group has mentioned use of side-scan sonar & ROV in deep water search & recovery situations. Here's an article on a recovery that was made in Lake Tahoe at a depth of in 1,062 feet.

If a search & recovery operation is being considered, those involved may wish to contact a search & recovery group called Bruce's Legacy. They are a nonprofit search and recovery group from Wisconsin who have assisted in many recoveries in North America. I do not know if they would be able to offer assistance in Mexico. But, if a recovery is being considered, it may be worth reaching out to them for assistance. Their website appears to be down right now, so here's a link to their fb page (contact info available there): Bruce's Legacy

More on Bruce's Legacy:
"Knowing the pain of having lost a loved one to the water, he's dedicated his life to finding others"

*edit* Bruce's Legacy website is up: bruceslegacy.com

 

[John C. Ratliff]

It isn’t that diving is especially risky.
It is very unforgiving of error and the consequences can be severe.

I would much prefer to die doing something I like rather than stay safe at home and be bored to death.

I am not going to comment directly on Mr. Cameron's fatal dive. But concerning this notion of risk, I'll put out there the equation that was published by Dr. Stanley Miles in Underwater Medicine in the 1960s:

A = CE(prf/tms)

Where:
A = accident potential
C = chance
E = environment
p = accident proneness
r = risk acceptance
f = physical factors
t = training
m = maturity
s = safety measures

Sometimes "chance" and the "environment" alone can cause an accident. But the equation has a numerator, which makes the accident more likely, and a denominator, which makes the accident less likely. Sometimes the "maturity" factor means looking at the conditions, and saying, "Let's not dive today." I've done that sometimes. "Training" can help ensure that a diver completes the dive. "Safety measures" includes all those measures that can be taken to make diving less hazardous.

Now, one other observation. Apparently Cameron was diving two side-mount 80 cubic foot aluminum cylinders, and dependent upon a scooter for good forward motion. I have done a lot of research on underwater swimming techniques, and side-mounting scuba is not a hydrodynamic means of forward swimming for a diver. If a current is high (and I have read here that the current could have been over 4 mph) a diver in this configuration could probably not swim against the current. I river dive a lot, and in high current situations, even with small doubles, a new swimming technique and large fins, I cannot swim against a 4-6 mph current for very long. If the current is higher, then it is best to swim at 90 degrees to it to get out of the current. On the bottom, where there is a bottom effect with corals or boulders, hand-over-hand mountaineering techniques can be used in very high current situations. But not in mid-water.

SeaRat