Accident & Incident Discussion - Northernone - aka Cameron Donaldson

[onewiththeocean]

It also suggests that a recovery might be possible in that sloping area. The problem is depth which means limited numbers of divers who could search or perhaps an underwater system is needed. Does the local navy have such a device?

I follow a Public Safety Diver group on fb (Cameron was a also member). This PSD group has mentioned use of side-scan sonar & ROV in deep water search & recovery situations. Here's an article on a recovery that was made in Lake Tahoe at a depth of in 1,062 feet.

If a search & recovery operation is being considered, those involved may wish to contact a search & recovery group called Bruce's Legacy. They are a nonprofit search and recovery group from Wisconsin who have assisted in many recoveries in North America. I do not know if they would be able to offer assistance in Mexico. But, if a recovery is being considered, it may be worth reaching out to them for assistance. Their website appears to be down right now, so here's a link to their fb page (contact info available there): Bruce's Legacy

More on Bruce's Legacy:
"Knowing the pain of having lost a loved one to the water, he's dedicated his life to finding others"

 

[Kay Dee]

Everything has risks. Breathing underwater is not a normal human activity.

Exactly, USN experiments aside, we still can't breathe liquid! So right there we are taking a 'risk' just going diving, calculated though it may be. Mankind takes on many risky endeavors and often it leads to great things, but at other times that 'risk' turns right round and bites the very best on the a@#e. Take mountaineering for example, many of the worlds very very best climbers have died doing what they did best.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Exactly, we can't breathe water! So right there we are taking a 'risk' just going diving, calculated though it may be. Mankind takes on many risky endeavours and often it leads to great things, but at other times that 'risk' turns right round and bites the very best on the a@#e. Take mountaneering for example, many of the worlds very very best climbers have died doing what they did best.

In the end, we will all die . . .but before that let's be sure that we've lived!

@kevin_tor, Good for you being so discerning and educating yourself at the start of your scuba diving life! It is unfortunately true that the dive industry is full of those types that you encountered. Thankfully, there are also others that aren't like that!! Because you are already paying attention, you'll find the right folk!

 

[Kay Dee]

In the end, we will all die . . .but before that let's be sure we've lived!

Great advice! I can go to my grave knowing I ticked ticked that box.

 

[Dominik_E]

I do not think a thread about one specific accident is an ideal place to discuss a very general risk level. This because when thinking of single events, one can sometimes (but less often than is claimed on such occasions) single out causes and mitigate future risks. But the general risk level associated with an activity in contrast only becomes meaningful when put into perspective. That we can not breathe water is true, but we also can not fly, and the insides of an airplane are still much safer than many places on the ground. I know that it is not a popular opinion, but the scuba industry is actually factually right in saying it is a very safe activity! Sure, there are risks, statistically about the same risk as for recreational jogging. No one expects to be given ample warning when buying new jogging shoes. To the contrast, people go on and on about the health benefits. Which is good, as they exist. And at the same time there will exist benefits for many individuals in scuba diving that will way overcompensate the small risk that comes with it. I do not say to forget about potentials for accidents, but rather to remember that a statistical risk in itself is not a meaningful absolute number, as we can only trade different risks in life, never completely avoid them...

 

[RayfromTX]

This is page 30 of a thread about an accident for which we will never know the cause. From this thread, there are five or six others that have spun off about specific things that can be done for SAR and risk avoidance for things that may or may not have contributed. Those threads have grown to a combined volume of over 100 pages. At this point in the discussion it may not be so off topic to discuss general risk level and our willingness to accept those risks in order to participate in a life that involves scuba. It may be the most on topic line of discussion that we have had here.

 

[Kay Dee]

I know that it is not a popular opinion, but the scuba industry is actually factually right in saying it is a very safe activity!

Dominik, with all due respect, I think you are dead wrong in implying it is a 'safe' activity. However, it is a 'safe enough' activity, depending of course on ones level of risk acceptance. That is, some people would never contemplate learning to dive. That the dive industry implies it is 'safe' is a known fact, and generally it is. However the scuba industry also says that anyone can be taught to dive, which is true, but that does not mean that those "anyone's" all should be diving. Far from it in some cases.

Just as with the flying analogy, inherently its not 'safe' either, as like you said we can't ourselves fly, but it has proved safe enough, just as scuba has on a whole (or is that when not diving in a hole?).

 

[Dominik_E]

Kay Dee, the point is that mathematically nothing at all will ever be "safe".

You see it in your posting: First you are saying that you think I am "dead wrong in implying it is a 'safe' activity.". Then, literally two sentences on, you are saying "That the dive industry implies it is 'safe' is a known fact, and generally it is.".

Is it safe or not?

Risks never become zero, not even for sitting in front of computers and reading forum threads. We all have some baseline, which means some risk level we are used to and which is not terribly out of whack with all risks of everyday activities. That we engage in without thinking about differences in risks. Endeavours that are near this baseline we normally call "safe" (at least this is how I use the word). Flying is safe in this definition, riding a bicycle is safe in this definition, walking the dog is safe in this definition, and so is recreational scuba diving. Nothing in this means that no accidents can happen. If you have a definition of "safe" that means no accident can happen, then, see above, of course you are entitled to have, but then nothing in the world is safe.

 

[CT-Rich]

Most recreational type diving (single tank, with a buddy, max depth 130 fsw) is extremely safe. Just as is hiking in the Adirondack mountains (bring appropriate clothes, proper shoes, water, let people know where you are going). People still die on fairly benign day hikes. They encounter predators, fall off ledges, die of exposure, sh!t happens. As soon as you start adding things outside of the basics, the equation changes. Spelunking, base jumping, rock climbing add progressively more risk.

The popular dive spot in RI usually has a death or two a year. Most of the time they involve things like cardiac events that may well have proved fatal if they occurred in most state forests. I think diving sometimes creates a fall sense of safety because you can go from your car to floating weightless in water in a few minutes. I have seen more than a couple ofdivers looking like they may stroke out gearing up. Those guy aren’t going for a ten mile hike in the woods.

This dive was a much higher risk dive. Solo, with a scooter, twin side mount, beyond the recreational limits in an area known for swift currents. He was competent to make this dive, but that did completely mitigate all the risk. His mother, who was diving in the same location, within recreational limits, successfully completed her dive.

Saying you can’t breath water is pretty much like complaining we don’t have fur. I don’t go naked hiking in October because I will freeze to death. I use a snorkel in five feet of water because it suits the task. I could bring steel doubles for the same dive, because on paper it looks safer, but I am not willing to say snorkeling is unsafe.

 

[Kay Dee]

Is it safe or not?

Put that way then, in a one or the other choice, no (in my opinion, not the industries). But just like flying, it has proved relatively safe for most, but that doesn't mean I personally think of it is a 'safe' pastime. I don't find a contradiction there, but then of course I wouldn't would I.

Risks never become zero, not even for sitting in front of computers and reading forum threads.

True, the damn thing could simply blow up in your face. But sitting at your computer is infinitely times safer than scuba diving.
All measured in degrees of risk, or what one considers safe, I suppose. Each to their own.