Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[sabbath999]

Total silt out, broken main line, complete inexperience, narcosis, darkness, no sign pointing to the way out, lack of air and utter panic.

If that statement didn't send a chill down your spine, I have no idea what would.

Can you imagine what that would be like? Yeah, I can too.

 

[scott&sara]

This was a very good discussion. I was also pleased to see the level of emotion kept to a minimal, since the focus of this forum is analysis, not condolences.

My thoughts are quite different about prevention.

Yes, we agree that we can all kumbaya on the same lesson learned, which is the same "dive only within your training and experience level"; but this lesson with be "relearned" over and over again in the future. I think we should go further.

First of all, since a cave like Vortex is well known and open to the public, why not do more to insure it can be dived safely? Why not install, for example, (1) a minimal system of underwater lights and/or (2) emergency air (breathing gas) stations at key jumps and/or (3) some emergency signaling device and/or (4) highly reliable (not breakable) lines, in a highly public cave.

In other words, since some caves are well known, very public and without any workable means to insure that unqualified divers do not dive there; instead of simply blaming death on the divers, why not make some caves more safer by investing money in one or more of the "off the top of my head" bullet items above or suggest other things/mechanisms/safety devices/controls to make cave diving safer? Not all caves, of course; but there must be some public, well known, caves, perhaps like Vortex, where the owners (or a diving club or association) could invest in making the cave safer for all (trained, qualified, certified, and/or foolish), versus the current "it is an accident waiting to happen" and "dive at your own risk" and "it is always the divers fault because they are not well trained" themes (and "lessons learned") we read about repeatedly.

... people need to take responsibility for themselves. We all have limitations and as adults we need to recognize what those limitations are and not exceed them.

I truly hope you were joking.

Scott

 

[alohagal]

Scott...the error of his ways have already been pointed out. Quite eloquently I might add.

You need to catch up.

 

[Cougar281]

You need to remember he was diving air. At that depth he was terribly narced and not thinking straight. That would enable him to do a lot more than a clear headed diver.

But you don't KNOW that he was narced. Could he have been? Yes. Was he? We don't and will never know. You could make multiple, seemingly idential dives to say 120ft, and only get narced on one dive, or not get narced on one dive, and no one really knows why this is. A friend of mine has been (briefly) to 157' on air (I saw he log from his dive computer and yes, it was deeper than he should have gone ) and did not get narced, but has at shallower depths. You can't simply say someone was narced because they where on air and deep because it doesn't affect every one every time.

 

[ianr33]

But you don't KNOW that he was narced.

Yes I do KNOW. At 150+ feet on air everyone is narced. Maybe not in a completely debilitating way but certainly enough to affect thought processes.

 

[bigken462]

Why keep reiterating a likely hood that is so likely UNLIKELY. It is this ongoing type of speculation, repeated over and over, that makes accident and incident threads so frustrating.

I have no sense of humor towards this thread...and never will.

All we have at this point is a AWOL diver - Who, I might add has been confirmed by many of the best divers in the area as to NOT being in that cave system. So if he's not there, then all other probable causes for his absence must be considered. Perhaps the banjo comment was out of line and in bad taste. But being involved in countless, and I mean countless missing person searches over the years for no other good reason than to determine someone is run away with a boyfriend/girlfriend on many occasions, I guess just makes me a cold hearted feller. Call it as you wish.

Ken

 

[alohagal]

But you don't KNOW that he was narced. Could he have been? Yes. Was he? We don't and will never know. You could make multiple, seemingly idential dives to say 120ft, and only get narced on one dive, or not get narced on one dive, and no one really knows why this is. A friend of mine has been (briefly) to 157' on air (I saw he log from his dive computer and yes, it was deeper than he should have gone ) and did not get narced, but has at shallower depths. You can't simply say someone was narced because they where on air and deep because it doesn't affect every one every time.

I doubt Kevin is stating emphatically that Ben was narced. It is just one of the possibilities. It could have been as simple as a silt out...which occurs in seconds and lasts for days.
Visibility is zero. As someone stated before...it is like negative visibility. (darker than any night sky) You could put your flashlight inches from your face and not be able to see a thing. It is in that situation that one is hopelessly lost if they have no training to know HOW to recover. And believe me this is not a situation that a trained person wants to deal with either. It takes merely one fin kick to stir up silt. You then grope for the wrong way out...and you are groping if you have NO guide line to help you. You are tragically lost in a system that is not a long giant tube with one way out...but a system with many veins and arteries. You now are running out of air in full panic.

You are right. I myself have been deeper than 150' on air and never experienced narcosis. Everyone is different.
That is not the real point here. It is ONE of the possibilities

 

[ScubaSteve]

All we have at this point is a AWOL diver - Who, I might add has been confirmed by many of the best divers in the area as to NOT being in that cave system. So if he's not there, then all other probable causes for his absence must be considered. Perhaps the banjo comment was out of line and in bad taste. But being involved in countless, and I mean countless missing person searches over the years for no other good reason than to determine someone is run away with a boyfriend/girlfriend on many occasions, I guess just makes me a cold hearted feller. Call it as you wish.

Ken

I think the point is, that since nobody knows where he is, every possibility needs to be explored. Nobody knows for certain that he is NOT in the cave. They simply know he is NOT where they have looked. I support the authorities looking above ground as well as in the water. Until he is found, ANYTHING is possible. I understand what Aloha is saying however unlikely does not translate into impossible. I believe they should keep options open and explore everything (that they can safely) to find him.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

But you don't KNOW that he was narced. Could he have been? Yes. Was he? We don't and will never know. You could make multiple, seemingly idential dives to say 120ft, and only get narced on one dive, or not get narced on one dive, and no one really knows why this is. A friend of mine has been (briefly) to 157' on air (I saw he log from his dive computer and yes, it was deeper than he should have gone ) and did not get narced, but has at shallower depths. You can't simply say someone was narced because they where on air and deep because it doesn't affect every one every time.

Actually yes I can. I don't care what you have heard about it the fact is you get narced wether you know it or not. I do not care if he said he wasn't narced in his log, he was. Its unavoidable unless you dive the right gas.

 

[SeaYoda]

Does anyone have a copy of the release form we sign when diving at Vortex?