Desert Diver
Registered
Does anyone have any experience with the Abysmal or new version VR3 Trimix computers.
Abysmal and VR3
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TexasMike
Contributor
Send a private message to TekDiver....he has had lots of experience with the gear you are asking about.
I have been using the mixed gas version of the abyss since february, I was one of the first to get it.. Overall I am pleased with the unit, I just sent it back in for the latest software update (it was updated once already)
I dive both OC and CC and only 3 computers support constant po2, 1 version of the commander (I have it -- best logging of ANY computer, only supports N2 based gasses), the abyss and the VR3 both also support N2 and He...
The abyss had some early problems, the earliest Vr3 computers were the most reliable but had extreme battery drain, later units had an assortment of problems, I know one person had 6 differernt VR3s fail... Hopefully the newly redesigned Vr3 solved the problems.. The should be shipping by now.. From the reports I got from someone I know who used one of the prototypes, It worked flawlessly.
watergal
Guest
I am kicking around the idea of a computer & would like to hear informed opinions on the Nitek3 vs Abysmal.
Have you seen Bret's ads for the Abysmal? That in itself is enoough to turn me off! But I will get over it if necessary.
Thanks
Have you seen Bret's ads for the Abysmal? That in itself is enoough to turn me off! But I will get over it if necessary.
Thanks
Yes, I saw them...
I dove with the nitek 3 since it was introduced, For nitroz multi gas I liked it but I alwys complained that the screen was too small... I used the nitek 3 with my other computers until may or june then I retired it..
I am happy with the a.e. and It's definately moe flexible than the nitek.. currently the nitek is better for logging, but thats it..
The thing I like most about the A.e. is that I set the first 5 gasses up for Closed Circuit with various PO2s and the last 5 gasses with the gasses of the divers I am with and my own bailout.. If I have to go to O.C. bailout I just switch to the appropiate gas and my deco obligation is recalculated on the fly.. I still always cut table for all my deco dives but as long as the computers are functioning I follow them since I can usually get out of the water much sooner than if I followed my worse case tables.
The only problem with ABYSMAL is they take forever to ship product.. I have delievered 6 units to friends and students plus my personal unit and to date none of use have had any failures, the only glitch was on my first dive (and 1 other person I sold it to) with the unit (and I didn't read the instructions about the proper way to install the battery cap and the unit reset underwater...) SInce following directions and stressing this to others we haven't had any problems.. There have been some minor software issues, none that caused any problems just annoyances, and these have been corrected.. Lately as an added precaution I use a dab of conductive grease on the battery tab just in case I was half asleep when setting up the computer)
The only other complaint/PLUS is the buttons without gloves they suck (until you get some callouses) but on the other hand when using gloves they cant be beat... I guess it depends on where you are going to use it .
If you like things automatic (but lose flexibility) and really like to analyze your dives and don't plan on using He then I would consider the multi gas or multi PO2 commander. The logging is the absolute best and the unit functions well..
I use the commander on non He CCR dives as a backup (depth/time) and to log it, I also use it alot on trimix dives since the unit will not lock out and does a better job logging than both the explorer and nitek (and switching to guage mode on the nitek is impossible if its less than 24 hours since your last dive)
I dove with the nitek 3 since it was introduced, For nitroz multi gas I liked it but I alwys complained that the screen was too small... I used the nitek 3 with my other computers until may or june then I retired it..
I am happy with the a.e. and It's definately moe flexible than the nitek.. currently the nitek is better for logging, but thats it..
The thing I like most about the A.e. is that I set the first 5 gasses up for Closed Circuit with various PO2s and the last 5 gasses with the gasses of the divers I am with and my own bailout.. If I have to go to O.C. bailout I just switch to the appropiate gas and my deco obligation is recalculated on the fly.. I still always cut table for all my deco dives but as long as the computers are functioning I follow them since I can usually get out of the water much sooner than if I followed my worse case tables.
The only problem with ABYSMAL is they take forever to ship product.. I have delievered 6 units to friends and students plus my personal unit and to date none of use have had any failures, the only glitch was on my first dive (and 1 other person I sold it to) with the unit (and I didn't read the instructions about the proper way to install the battery cap and the unit reset underwater...) SInce following directions and stressing this to others we haven't had any problems.. There have been some minor software issues, none that caused any problems just annoyances, and these have been corrected.. Lately as an added precaution I use a dab of conductive grease on the battery tab just in case I was half asleep when setting up the computer)
The only other complaint/PLUS is the buttons without gloves they suck (until you get some callouses) but on the other hand when using gloves they cant be beat... I guess it depends on where you are going to use it .
If you like things automatic (but lose flexibility) and really like to analyze your dives and don't plan on using He then I would consider the multi gas or multi PO2 commander. The logging is the absolute best and the unit functions well..
I use the commander on non He CCR dives as a backup (depth/time) and to log it, I also use it alot on trimix dives since the unit will not lock out and does a better job logging than both the explorer and nitek (and switching to guage mode on the nitek is impossible if its less than 24 hours since your last dive)
JEANPAULT
New
Hello Scuba Board List,
I would like to comment on major problems I've had with the Abyss Explorer Trimix lately.
My name is Jean-Paul. I'm a Trimix diver in Vancouver, BC. PADI Instructor. Hyperbaric Technician,etc
Here's the scoop:
I ordered the Abyss Explorer Trimix on March 7, 2001. I finally received the Explorer on July 12, 2001.
After a couple of dozen dives (some in excess of 300fsw), the computer flooded on October 7, 2001. I immediately shipped it back to Abysmal in Boulder Colorado for repairs.
After three months of waiting without much feedback from Abysmal except when I would call them myself, I finally received a 'new' computer on December 28, 2001.
The computer did not work either. The display was shot and showed all 8's. I contacted Chris Parrett who advised me to return the unit. The unit was shipped back on January 7, 2002 (after the Holidays) and was received by Abysmal that Friday morning (January 11, 2002) at 9am.
It is now February 9, 2002. And I still do not have a working dive computer...
Here is the latest correspondance that I've had from Abysmal:
*****************
----Original Message Follows----
Wrom: GMEPYOQKEDOTWFAOBUZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCU
To: "Jean-Paul Tremblay" <jeanpault@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Status of Abyss Trimix computer (Jean-Paul)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:04:39 -0700
Hello Jean-Paul,
I got your computer in twice since you sent it to us. Both times it failed QC. I talked to engineering today and I was told that it is shipping today and I should have it by next week. I will put it through QC. I'll call and let you know what is going down.
Regards,
Amanda
************
Wednesday February 6, 2002
Hello Amanda,
This is nothing personal to you. I know you're trying to make ends meet with your two jobs.
However, the fact that the computer FAILED QC TWICE already is an indication that THAT particular Abysmal Abyss Explorer Trimix is a LEMON! I would not tolerate this from any other part of my dive equipment let alone my decompression computer.
I DO NOT WANT THAT PARTICULAR ABYSS TRIMIX DIVE COMPUTER.
When I originally shipped the computer after the display contact malfunction, it arrived at Abysmal Diving Inc. on Friday morning at 9AM January 11, 2002.
I would have expected from a respectable company that honors their products and customer service that a Brand New Computer would have been shipped to me that afternoon! After waiting 3 months for repairs to be done since October 16, 2001, I received a defective dive computer on December 28, 2001. Now, almost a month later (February 6, 2002), I still do not have a working dive computer. This is unacceptable from a company that is attempting to secure diver loyalty.
I expect that a BRAND NEW ABYSS EXPLORER TRIMIX be shipped to my home address in Vancouver by this Friday February 8, 2002 via UPS and I expect Abysmal Diving Inc. to pay for all shipping and brokerage fees.
I have not had a working dive computer since October 16, 2001. I, therefore, have been doing without it for 3 months.
If this cannot be accomplished, I expect a full refund from Abysmal Diving Inc.
Sincerely,
Jean-Paul Tremblay
Email: jeanpault@hotmail.com
**************************************
Are you guys still with me on this?!?!?!
Here is the letter that I will be sending today as I have not heard from Mr. Parrett about my terms.:
Thursday February 7, 2002
Mr. Chris Parrett
President
Abysmal Diving Inc.
I am forwarding you the email that Amanda Sundvor sent me yesterday.
I have been out-of-pocket $2000 Canadian since October 7, 2001 from not having a working dive computer. That's almost 4 months!
After reflecting on the situation and in light of the frequent quality control problems with the Abysmal Abyss Explorer Trimix and of the extremely long repair and service time that I experienced, I am not very impressed with the reliability of Abysmal's computers.
I find it ironic that since January 2002, you no longer quote your number 1 rule:
*******
WWW.ABYSMAL.COM
6595 Odell Place, Suite I. Boulder CO, 80301 USA
Phone: (303) 530-7248 Fax: (303) 530-2808
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule #1 If We Don't Take Care Of The Customer...Somebody Else Will.
"Its not so much what we do, but how we do it that really matters."
*******
What went wrong?
I respectfully request a FULL REFUND of $US 1209.50 applied as a credit to my American Express.
Regards,
Jean-Paul Tremblay
****************************************************
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK? AM I UNREASONABLE?
Please feel free to contact me directly at jeanpault@hotmail.com
for your comments.
Later,
Jean-Paul
I would like to comment on major problems I've had with the Abyss Explorer Trimix lately.
My name is Jean-Paul. I'm a Trimix diver in Vancouver, BC. PADI Instructor. Hyperbaric Technician,etc
Here's the scoop:
I ordered the Abyss Explorer Trimix on March 7, 2001. I finally received the Explorer on July 12, 2001.
After a couple of dozen dives (some in excess of 300fsw), the computer flooded on October 7, 2001. I immediately shipped it back to Abysmal in Boulder Colorado for repairs.
After three months of waiting without much feedback from Abysmal except when I would call them myself, I finally received a 'new' computer on December 28, 2001.
The computer did not work either. The display was shot and showed all 8's. I contacted Chris Parrett who advised me to return the unit. The unit was shipped back on January 7, 2002 (after the Holidays) and was received by Abysmal that Friday morning (January 11, 2002) at 9am.
It is now February 9, 2002. And I still do not have a working dive computer...
Here is the latest correspondance that I've had from Abysmal:
*****************
----Original Message Follows----
Wrom: GMEPYOQKEDOTWFAOBUZXUWLSZLKBRNVWWCU
To: "Jean-Paul Tremblay" <jeanpault@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Status of Abyss Trimix computer (Jean-Paul)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:04:39 -0700
Hello Jean-Paul,
I got your computer in twice since you sent it to us. Both times it failed QC. I talked to engineering today and I was told that it is shipping today and I should have it by next week. I will put it through QC. I'll call and let you know what is going down.
Regards,
Amanda
************
Wednesday February 6, 2002
Hello Amanda,
This is nothing personal to you. I know you're trying to make ends meet with your two jobs.
However, the fact that the computer FAILED QC TWICE already is an indication that THAT particular Abysmal Abyss Explorer Trimix is a LEMON! I would not tolerate this from any other part of my dive equipment let alone my decompression computer.
I DO NOT WANT THAT PARTICULAR ABYSS TRIMIX DIVE COMPUTER.
When I originally shipped the computer after the display contact malfunction, it arrived at Abysmal Diving Inc. on Friday morning at 9AM January 11, 2002.
I would have expected from a respectable company that honors their products and customer service that a Brand New Computer would have been shipped to me that afternoon! After waiting 3 months for repairs to be done since October 16, 2001, I received a defective dive computer on December 28, 2001. Now, almost a month later (February 6, 2002), I still do not have a working dive computer. This is unacceptable from a company that is attempting to secure diver loyalty.
I expect that a BRAND NEW ABYSS EXPLORER TRIMIX be shipped to my home address in Vancouver by this Friday February 8, 2002 via UPS and I expect Abysmal Diving Inc. to pay for all shipping and brokerage fees.
I have not had a working dive computer since October 16, 2001. I, therefore, have been doing without it for 3 months.
If this cannot be accomplished, I expect a full refund from Abysmal Diving Inc.
Sincerely,
Jean-Paul Tremblay
Email: jeanpault@hotmail.com
**************************************
Are you guys still with me on this?!?!?!
Here is the letter that I will be sending today as I have not heard from Mr. Parrett about my terms.:
Thursday February 7, 2002
Mr. Chris Parrett
President
Abysmal Diving Inc.
I am forwarding you the email that Amanda Sundvor sent me yesterday.
I have been out-of-pocket $2000 Canadian since October 7, 2001 from not having a working dive computer. That's almost 4 months!
After reflecting on the situation and in light of the frequent quality control problems with the Abysmal Abyss Explorer Trimix and of the extremely long repair and service time that I experienced, I am not very impressed with the reliability of Abysmal's computers.
I find it ironic that since January 2002, you no longer quote your number 1 rule:
*******
WWW.ABYSMAL.COM
6595 Odell Place, Suite I. Boulder CO, 80301 USA
Phone: (303) 530-7248 Fax: (303) 530-2808
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Rule #1 If We Don't Take Care Of The Customer...Somebody Else Will.
"Its not so much what we do, but how we do it that really matters."
*******
What went wrong?
I respectfully request a FULL REFUND of $US 1209.50 applied as a credit to my American Express.
Regards,
Jean-Paul Tremblay
****************************************************
SO WHAT DO YOU THINK? AM I UNREASONABLE?
Please feel free to contact me directly at jeanpault@hotmail.com
for your comments.
Later,
Jean-Paul
I'm surpirsed they took that long, I sent my computer in for updates 2 times, first time was about 6 weeks total time (ground shipping both ways). I had the original batch of software v1.06 (feb 2001) and wanted the bug fixes, so had it upgraded to 1.12 (in april or may) then when the battery mod came out I shipped it back again, this time turn was about 1 month... (Shipped ground both ways). I know my first computer failed a qc after being upgraded at least once, but when I got it back it worked fine and put many dives on it.. How did you flood it?? the way the display is made it shouldn't ever get in there, The only possible entry is the battery cap and I can see it hapenning if its over/under tightened.. Everyone I know who had any tbl with their units failed to follow the recommended instructions for installing the battery (6 to 6.5 turns), and just tightened it until it was snug instead of counting.. If you overtighten it at depth youll hear a ping and the computer will usually reset itself.. I do know they had some problems with the molds used for the green and the yellow computers... Mine is a yellow... As far as I have heard all the other colors have been fine.. I have sold 9 units and have had no complaints except about the buttons when in warm water (they hurt abit) but are great with heavy gloves...
I also have the new VR3 the case is better (display is wonderful but way too small) and its a total pain in the ass to program. It also doesn't have all the flexibility of the explorer when it comes to setting personal conservation factors (but it allows you to reprogram the stored mixes underwater).... also the new buttons are better than the old style but stick too much..
I also have the new VR3 the case is better (display is wonderful but way too small) and its a total pain in the ass to program. It also doesn't have all the flexibility of the explorer when it comes to setting personal conservation factors (but it allows you to reprogram the stored mixes underwater).... also the new buttons are better than the old style but stick too much..
JEANPAULT
New
Hello Padi Scuba,
I'm amazed by your quick turn around time for the software upgrades for the Abyss Explorer Trimix.
I've had all my shipping sent to relatives in Washington State with huge turnaround time.
The first time I had to send it back (e.g. due to flooding), the problem must have been the o-rings wearing out. I used the computer many times over the course of 3 months both in the water and inside the hyperbaric chamber immersed in a water bucket. And yes, the 6 to 6.5 turns are right which coincided with the display initializing.
As you know the $10 batteries get drained very fast so I can see that after unscrewing the knob many times it could have contributed to the problem.
Anyway, my main concern is that I had to wait 3 months for a new computer that when I received it did not work. And now a month later, I still do not have a working computer.
Not only that, but I have not received any 'real' apologies from Abysmal Diving Inc. nor any attempts to correct the situation in an expedient manners.
I think that when a customer, myself, who is in the diving industry, who dives with dozens of technical divers and mix-gas instructors, who teaches diving, gas blending, and hyperbaric medicine, and who organizes deep water exploration dives, I would think that some 'goodwill' would be in Abysmal best interest to have their dive products be looked upon as THE choice for technical divers.
Maybe Abysmal has the entire market share that they want and perhaps my negative experience with the customer service at Abysmal Diving is not very important to them.
The main thing is that all my dive buddies think that this is the biggest joke.
On another note, what do you think of the VR3? Or should I just wait until the bugs are out and the price goes down...
Thanks for your reply.
Jean-Paul
I'm amazed by your quick turn around time for the software upgrades for the Abyss Explorer Trimix.
I've had all my shipping sent to relatives in Washington State with huge turnaround time.
The first time I had to send it back (e.g. due to flooding), the problem must have been the o-rings wearing out. I used the computer many times over the course of 3 months both in the water and inside the hyperbaric chamber immersed in a water bucket. And yes, the 6 to 6.5 turns are right which coincided with the display initializing.
As you know the $10 batteries get drained very fast so I can see that after unscrewing the knob many times it could have contributed to the problem.
Anyway, my main concern is that I had to wait 3 months for a new computer that when I received it did not work. And now a month later, I still do not have a working computer.
Not only that, but I have not received any 'real' apologies from Abysmal Diving Inc. nor any attempts to correct the situation in an expedient manners.
I think that when a customer, myself, who is in the diving industry, who dives with dozens of technical divers and mix-gas instructors, who teaches diving, gas blending, and hyperbaric medicine, and who organizes deep water exploration dives, I would think that some 'goodwill' would be in Abysmal best interest to have their dive products be looked upon as THE choice for technical divers.
Maybe Abysmal has the entire market share that they want and perhaps my negative experience with the customer service at Abysmal Diving is not very important to them.
The main thing is that all my dive buddies think that this is the biggest joke.
On another note, what do you think of the VR3? Or should I just wait until the bugs are out and the price goes down...
Thanks for your reply.
Jean-Paul
I agree you should have been treated better.. Abysmal does not manufacturer the unit, They have a company in florida manufactures it, http://www.hs-eng.com/
and from what I have heard, the manufacturer doesn't consistently deliever the goods to their satisfaction. I don;t know how it is these days but at the beginning very few computers delievered froom the manufacturer passes abysmal's QC.
I can tell you that every computer is put in a pressure pot and a dive is run to 600 fsw to check the accuracy and functionality of the computer. I don't know of any other computer manufacturer that actually test all their computers, most just check a few out of every batch... For most users this isn't a problem and most are unlikely to have problems in shallow water (recreational depths) but the divers who use their computers, are using it to where many may experience problems..
I can usually get any answers I want from them as 2 of the people in abysmal were divers and reps that were local to me, so I knew them before they were at abysmal.
I'm not trying to defend them, I think 3 months is a long time to wait, but there really isn't any other choice.. The new vr3 is nice(considerably better than its predecessor), but still needs work..
The only reason I purchased it is so I can add the PO2 attachment, so I'll have a totall independent meals of monitoring the loop on my CCR. I still prefer the explorer by far... The vr3 did help me pass some time on my last deco stop.. The video game gave me something to do, other than just hang...
and from what I have heard, the manufacturer doesn't consistently deliever the goods to their satisfaction. I don;t know how it is these days but at the beginning very few computers delievered froom the manufacturer passes abysmal's QC.
I can tell you that every computer is put in a pressure pot and a dive is run to 600 fsw to check the accuracy and functionality of the computer. I don't know of any other computer manufacturer that actually test all their computers, most just check a few out of every batch... For most users this isn't a problem and most are unlikely to have problems in shallow water (recreational depths) but the divers who use their computers, are using it to where many may experience problems..
I can usually get any answers I want from them as 2 of the people in abysmal were divers and reps that were local to me, so I knew them before they were at abysmal.
I'm not trying to defend them, I think 3 months is a long time to wait, but there really isn't any other choice.. The new vr3 is nice(considerably better than its predecessor), but still needs work..
The only reason I purchased it is so I can add the PO2 attachment, so I'll have a totall independent meals of monitoring the loop on my CCR. I still prefer the explorer by far... The vr3 did help me pass some time on my last deco stop.. The video game gave me something to do, other than just hang...
JEANPAULT
New
This is a letter that I have just sent to Abysmal president Mr. Chris Parrett:
Tuesday February 12, 2002
Hello Mr. Chris Parrett,
I took the initiative to ask for the advice and comments of technical divers from various technical diving newsgroups about their experience with Abysmal's flagship: the Abyss Explorer Trimix.
I was very surprised that a great many people have said that they've ordered their Abyss Explorer many months ago (some over a year ago) and still have not received their units!?! Also that they found the customer service from Abysmal Diving, Inc to be very elusive.
After recounting the events that followed from shipping my computer for repairs on October 7, 2001, I was also surprised that others have also had similar problems with long turn-around times and quality control issues. I would hope that Abysmal is voicing the concerns from their customers to Hydrospace Engineering, Inc.
A recent email from a technical diver informed me that Abysmal buys the Explorer Trimix from Hydrospace Engineering, Inc located in Florida. This would explain the disjointed repairs to quality control problems.
I would like to know why, Mr.. Parrett, you do not keep customers who have paid $1400 US in the loop? I trust that your software designing capabilities are exceptional but the customer service and quality control are in need of improvement.
After hearing so many concerned customers express their opinion and dissatisfaction, what chance does Abysmal have to stay competitive and stay in business?
I still haven't received an apology since Abysmal shipped me a defective, inoperable computer back in December 28, 2001.
I would very like to give you a chance to redeem yourself and I would expect you to take full responsibility for your products.
I respectfully await your response.
Sincerely,
Jean-Paul Tremblay
Jean-Paul Tremblay, MHK, BPE, CMA, CHT
Email: jeanpault@hotmail.com
Tuesday February 12, 2002
Hello Mr. Chris Parrett,
I took the initiative to ask for the advice and comments of technical divers from various technical diving newsgroups about their experience with Abysmal's flagship: the Abyss Explorer Trimix.
I was very surprised that a great many people have said that they've ordered their Abyss Explorer many months ago (some over a year ago) and still have not received their units!?! Also that they found the customer service from Abysmal Diving, Inc to be very elusive.
After recounting the events that followed from shipping my computer for repairs on October 7, 2001, I was also surprised that others have also had similar problems with long turn-around times and quality control issues. I would hope that Abysmal is voicing the concerns from their customers to Hydrospace Engineering, Inc.
A recent email from a technical diver informed me that Abysmal buys the Explorer Trimix from Hydrospace Engineering, Inc located in Florida. This would explain the disjointed repairs to quality control problems.
I would like to know why, Mr.. Parrett, you do not keep customers who have paid $1400 US in the loop? I trust that your software designing capabilities are exceptional but the customer service and quality control are in need of improvement.
After hearing so many concerned customers express their opinion and dissatisfaction, what chance does Abysmal have to stay competitive and stay in business?
I still haven't received an apology since Abysmal shipped me a defective, inoperable computer back in December 28, 2001.
I would very like to give you a chance to redeem yourself and I would expect you to take full responsibility for your products.
I respectfully await your response.
Sincerely,
Jean-Paul Tremblay
Jean-Paul Tremblay, MHK, BPE, CMA, CHT
Email: jeanpault@hotmail.com
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