About the Genesis 2000..

[Buccaneer]

Thanks for all the replies!

shrwdtech: Don't worry about the PM That is weird tho- it shows it in my msg tracking.... no big deal

with due respect, that you have a lot to learn

Right, again. thats why I'm asking ??'s and rest assured I am already enrolled in the apropriate classes- just waiting for them to start, and I apreciate your feedback.

 

[shrwdtech]

"Shrwdtech happens to be one who falls into that other category. All evidence points to the fact that he really belives that the regulators are not safe for up to 40% without an O2 "kit" and is not simply following the company line."



Some people here are correct. Many people speak only from repeating what they here. MikeF and I often have differing views on things but he is far from a "moron". He's informed and has thoughts based on his experience, knowledge and opinion.

And while I am not out to impress anybody, Sherwdtech is a NAUI Corse Director, an advanced Nitrox and Deep Air Instructor, as well having extensive experience in a field working with both Gaseous and Liquid Oxygen on an almost daily basis. Doesn't make me an expert by any means, but I'm betting it gives me a GREAT DEAL more experience than 95% of the people out there making posts on the subject.

I'm glad your reg and others have not "exploded", as you say. Wonderful to hear. Sincerely hope it never does. I hate reading about accidents to anybody or about ruined gear (more likely result). Not to mention I actually enjoy our discussions, James.

But, it still boils down to a game of Russian Roulette. There might be more than 6 chambers in your "gun", and you nor anybody you know may never be the unlucky ones, but it's going to happen. There is no way for us in the dive industry to know that the consumer is doing exactly what they are instructed to. Some play the odds, some decide to go a different route. Liability? Sure. You bet. .0000000000000000001% of a chance is still a chance, and we as a company have decided that it's still too much of a chance to take with somebody else's life, gear, etc.

Say what you will, point the fingers where you want. That's fine. Trying to make money off this? Our parts kits for this are around $4. There is no money to be made in an area of our sport that includes about 1% of the divers out there.

So, as has been said several times, do what you think is best.


Oh, and Split Fins. I've got one of the very first pairs of Apollo Bio fins to ever be sold, have had them in Alaska, British Columbia, The Pacific NW, California, Mexico, Caribbean, Florida, and Hawaii... and have yet to see any single fin out there give me a single reason to dive with anything but split fins. Enjoy your cramps and tired legs. That's your choice too.

 

[Boogie711]

OK - Obviously you have a very heavy chip on your shoulder. There's probably nothing I can say that's going to make that any lighter, so let me just say this for the benefit of everyone else:

You teach DEEP AIR!?!?! I thought that was just an urban legend. People actually teach people 'how to dive drunk?' Puh-leeze.

He's a split fin-advocating, deep air instructing guy who thinks using Nitrox in a reg is playing Russian Roulette.

'Nuff said. Thanks for weighing in.

 

[shrwdtech]

Ya know. It's a head shaker to me too. *laughing* I've not taught it since I left Florida, but I was pretty amazed at the amount of people who'd come looking for the class when I was there.

Who am I to turn away a buck if somebody wants to hand it to me, though?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Boogie711 once bubbled...
OK - Obviously you have a very heavy chip on your shoulder. There's probably nothing I can say that's going to make that any lighter, so let me just say this for the benefit of everyone else:

You teach DEEP AIR!?!?! I thought that was just an urban legend. People actually teach people 'how to dive drunk?' Puh-leeze.

He's a split fin-advocating, deep air instructing guy who thinks using Nitrox in a reg is playing Russian Roulette.

'Nuff said. Thanks for weighing in.

IANTD has a class that's now called Deep Diver that used to be called Deep Air. The max depth allowed for training dives is 130 ft and no manditory staged decompression.

So...it's not really deep air. The skills and equipment required are very similar to the Advanced nitrox class but without the nitrox.

Also the new recreational trimix classes can be combined with the Advanced Nitrox as well.

 

[Boogie711]

I just reviewed both posts, and they're coming off as much harsher than I intended.

For the record - Mike, I never would really think of you as a moron. I trust he knew I was joking, especially since I've stated publicly how much I think of him and his ideals for how Dive Training "should be." He did manage to get rid of a set of split fins for Uncle Pug to do some testing, Shrwd - you may have missed that.

Shrwd - You can dive whatever you want, whenever you want. It's obvious our dive mentality's different, but I won't ever tell you what you should or should not be diving with. But for the record - I do think that Deep Air is downright dangerous.


(And split fins are crap, too. ) <---- note smiley!!!!

 

[shrwdtech]

Okay... was going to ignore this one, too, but I have to say it. I've been laughing for a few minutes.

A chip??? Too funny. I know Ontario is a long way from S. Cal, so you've never had to deal with me for gear troubles, but anybody who's ever attended my seminars or dealt with me face to face or on the phone would have a gut roar over that one!



Still laughing. I know you can only make a judgment on what you read here, and it's tough online to get a feel for a person (most of the time). All my chips are in my cookies, guacamole dip, and on poker tables (and never in MY pile, it seems). Trust me, a chip on my shoulder isn't a major concern here. *STILL chuckling* ut:

But I do admit there are times I ought to just let everybody say what they want and not get involved. My experiences aren't from 25 years of scuba, but from spread around and learned in aviation engineering, and liquid gas technologies (gasses pressurized to the point of becoming a solid/liqiud). So, I answer not only from this scuba manufacturer's policy, but also from what I've seen and learned over the years. Really. LOL I promise. It's not just what my instructor told me.

Anyway, have a great day and what ever you choose, enjoy!

 

[HammerNoMore]

shrwdtech once bubbled...

"Shrwdtech happens to be one who falls into that other category. All evidence points to the fact that he really belives that the regulators are not safe for up to 40% without an O2 "kit" and is not simply following the company line."

[snip]

But, it still boils down to a game of Russian Roulette. There might be more than 6 chambers in your "gun", and you nor anybody you know may never be the unlucky ones, but it's going to happen. There is no way for us in the dive industry to know that the consumer is doing exactly what they are instructed to. Some play the odds, some decide to go a different route. Liability? Sure. You bet. .0000000000000000001% of a chance is still a chance, and we as a company have decided that it's still too much of a chance to take with somebody else's life, gear, etc.

Hmm, sounds like you mis-interpreted my statement a bit. Not hard to do in a written forum:

1) I understand the need for companies to cover their backsides. It's entirely necissary in this environment. We live in a society where you have to lable that coffee is hot and you have to basicly force people to perform at least some maintanence on their regulator to claim you can use it with EAN. Even though everyone knows coffee is hot and it would take an very abused regulator to cause a probem with EAN36. I'm not faulting the companies for covering themselves. Just telling people they they shouldn't belive everything they read.

2) What I was trying to say is that YOU in partciular are not just making your claims from the CYA point of view, even though you work for the company. You have made it clear in the past that this is a personal belief based on personal experience. I actually went through several revisions trying not to make that look argumentative. I guesss I didn't succeed.

In other words I was actually offering crediblity to your standpoint even though I disagree with it. Sorry for the confusion.

Trying to make money off this? Our parts kits for this are around $4.

Genesis/Sherwood are one of the more reasonably priced manufacturers out there. Some other manufacturers would probably charge around $50 for a "nitrox conversion". At any rate all the LDS's around here love to over-charge. I'd hate to see what their labor costs would be.

So, as has been said several times, do what you think is best.

I couldn't agree more .

James

 

[Norm]

One manufacturer says their equipment is good up to 42% nitrox. Another says 50%. Zeagle says up to 40% without any modifications. (I think that they will assemble kits for dealers, for use with up to 100%) I have built regs for 100% oxygen from several manufacturers and I have been using any/all of my regs with 50/50 with NO modifications or ill-effects at all. Now titanium regs are apparently a different story....
Norm