?? about Leisure Pro

[DEEPLOU]

If the demand form the training (or compressed gas) is great enough, it will be met. I see LDSs becoming more focused and efficient rather than all disappearing. But If they actually disappeared in some areas, I guess the divers would have no choice but to form clubs to support their activity on a non-profit basis, like in the old days.

If this were true, then the "Training/fill station" would have to cover its overhead on these two items alone!

As it is now, most LDS's actually barely or don't make money on fills. Yes air is free, but the compressor is a major expense, then you have labor, electric, maintenance , rent or mortgage, taxes, that have to be paid.
As for training, there is the instructor who has to be paid, rent or mortgage for the "office" and then pool there is the expense of installing one and maintenance that has to be absorbed or pool time to be rented.
If only doing training and fills, guess a fill (of air) would now run maybe $20-30.
And cost of training would go up significantly!

Club to support their activity on "non-profit basis"? Does that include coming up with a couple of grand per person to start up a fill station?

Get real.

 

[DEEPLOU]

Another thing on the LP vs LDS
If at home you have a problem w a piece of gear, w/LDS you bring it in, the tech looks at it and maybe all it needs is a little tweek, its done and your out the door in a short time. LP, you send it in and turn around time is going to be couple of weeks at least, and you have to pay postage to send it. (oh the LDS who sold you the gear probably won't even charge for the service).

Your away from home w/ that reg u bought from LP, and theres a problem, you find a local shop that carries that brand and w/o warrante you get to send it back to LP, and you have to rent equip for balance of trip.

BTW: u gonna get LP service your regs also?

 

[redacted]

If this were true, then the "Training/fill station" would have to cover its overhead on these two items alone!

As it is now, most LDS's actually barely or don't make money on fills. Yes air is free, but the compressor is a major expense, then you have labor, electric, maintenance , rent or mortgage, taxes, that have to be paid.
As for training, there is the instructor who has to be paid, rent or mortgage for the "office" and then pool there is the expense of installing one and maintenance that has to be absorbed or pool time to be rented.
If only doing training and fills, guess a fill (of air) would now run maybe $20-30.
And cost of training would go up significantly!

Club to support their activity on "non-profit basis"? Does that include coming up with a couple of grand per person to start up a fill station?

Get real.

Yes. Looks like 4 to 5k total would get the fill station up & running. Or there might be some real good buys on used compressors from failed LDSs. How many diver do you know in your local area that might be iterested if gas were not available at a reasonable cost from an LDS?

And I am not saying LDS totally give up the retail gear market. Just understand the nature of the competition and fing the way to fit in and survive. And if the cost of training and/or gas goes up because of supply and demand, then so be it. At least it will not be an artificially constrained market.

Service should also be a source of profit for the LDS. But if they don't do the job right, folks will send them off to on of the larger service center or DIY. I chose the DIY route. Gear problems are easy to handle. I carry spares for those thing that can ruin a trip. And they have been used fairly often - usually to save someone elses dive.

I see some of the more progressive manufactures are now permitting online sales, free price competition, and retail sales of parts. I'm hoping this is the wave of the future. Some LDSs seem to be taking advantage of this opportunity while other just don't want to change. We may end up with less LDS, but the ones that survive should be the better one.

 

[Phil@1877SCUBAUSA.COM]

The LDS takes full responsibility for everything they sell. Air, Gear etc., when your Local Dive Shop is gone those of you who choose LP to save a few bucks will finally get it. In the long run you save nothing. The Local Dive Shop IS your Club. Social clubs tend to be loaded with politics. The Local Dive Shop should make you feel that you are a member not a target. So if your shop is not treating you right, then simply find one that will. Those guys at LP "DO NOT DIVE" and have no official relationship with the manufacturer. When I was on the other side of the counter, I treated my decisions to buy from my Local Dive Shop as if my life depended on it.
A Dive Shop is a business and has to make a living. You do not have to blindly deal with just any dive shop. Search around for a shop that makes you feel comfortable, patronizes that shop and you should reap a multitude of dividends. Such as good advice far more valuable that a cheap price. Then don’t be afraid to negotiate, after all the Dive Shop owner is a fellow diver and the good ones are friends.

 

[erichK]

The LDS takes full responsibility for everything they sell. Air, Gear etc., when your Local Dive Shop is gone those of you who choose LP to save a few bucks will finally get it. In the long run you save nothing. The Local Dive Shop IS your Club. Social clubs tend to be loaded with politics. The Local Dive Shop should make you feel that you are a member not a target. So if your shop is not treating you right, then simply find one that will. Those guys at LP "DO NOT DIVE" and have no official relationship with the manufacturer. When I was on the other side of the counter, I treated my decisions to buy from my Local Dive Shop as if my life depended on it.
A Dive Shop is a business and has to make a living. You do not have to blindly deal with just any dive shop. Search around for a shop that makes you feel comfortable, patronizes that shop and you should reap a multitude of dividends. Such as good advice far more valuable that a cheap price. Then don’t be afraid to negotiate, after all the Dive Shop owner is a fellow diver and the good ones are friends.

Unfortunately, not all of us have the luxury of "choosing between" LDS's. We live in sunny Saskatoon, Saskatchewan Canada, it has 220,000+ people, and three dives clubs, but only a single LDS. The fact that it calls itself "The Diving Centre" says something about the attitude of its owner. He has sometimes been very helpful, esapecially on dives and dive boats, and that is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, he has also:

1) Strongly recommended gear *he sells*--like the floppy SP Twinjets he persuaded my daughter and I to buy (they're great for really casual diving, btw...but almost dangerously inefficient in current or emergencies.)

2) Continued to have a very variable price structure...offering to meet or beat even internet prices, yet having sticker and website prices that are nuch higher

3) Surreptitiously gouging huge markups on such items as the stupid little Princeton "Vortec" headlamp which he sold me for $80 CAD, which fell off my head in a night, cold water, curent dive, then fell appart on the dive skiff. Or the--totally useless in the ocean--Airhammer he sold my wife for $130 CAD (I later noted that LP sells the light for $30US!)

4) Always seeming to blame the diver rather than the equipment, for example claiming that the tendency of the Mares Synchrotech Pro BC to drop its integrated weight systems of not using this BC properly. Other owners confirmed that the problem is also, even mainly with the design. Another example is a SP G250 reg that he has tuned and fixed several times, that keeps having problems.

With three people to buy for, two of them new divers precious to me, I have had to go to the internet, eBay and MO to find safe, high quality equipment at prices we can manage. Thus, I was able to get like new ATX 200's and Cobra computers and Ladyhawk BC's for them, and a used SP G250 and Cressi Archimede for myself for as total sum we could manage...and 30% to 60% less than his always variable pricing.
We did briefly look at the Cobras and his brochure on them, long before we found them from a closing dive shop and Divetank on the net , but I hardly feel guilty about this.

We did buy nasks, snorkels, fins, bags and many smaller items at this LDS, and just this morning I cancelled an order with LP, on realizing that most of the items would be available from the LDS. However, I also just received a couple of pairs of Apollo Pro XT fins with steel straps and a UK dive light from Divetank...the Apollo's being a line he doesn't carry and the light being 50% of his price.

The cautions about LP not being divers and occasionally selling real crap (avoid their gift packs, save-a-dive packages etc.) are right on the nose. It is better to do to real divers.

However, all the preaching about supporting the LDS is pious nonsense, if the LDS happens to be a monopoly with an attitude, which, however helpful at times, could also injure or kill you in its disregard for the reality that dive equipment--even the lines they sell--still is much less than perfect.

 

[wacdiver]

I agree with the "Support your LDS" group these are the guys that are there to help us, teach us, and be a voice of reason/experience when we need it. Granted some LDS are not worth $#!^ ! Because all they care about is the almighty $$$$$, now granted this by NO means describes all LDS (there are a few here I wouldn't send my worst enemy to, and others I swear by). But for the most part the guys at your LDS are gonna be the ones helping you when you need it. So doesn't it make sense to support them? Don't get me wrong I am not saying that I never bought from LP or online in general, but the things I did buy were things I knew I would not have to worry about servicing, repairing, maintaining, ect (in other words NO regs, BCs, gagues, cameras, ect).
If you can save $100+ on your setup by getting fins, snorkel, boots, gloves and the like from LP or other online store then I say go for it. I mean is the fin from your LDS gonna work better than one from an online store? No, not at all so why should I pay more for the same item when warantee, and/or servicing are not an issue? BUT for the things you need to try on, have a Mfg. warantee, or will need to be serviced, nothing beats having your dealer nearby. As was said in an earlier post what may only take a few mins at your LDS "oh you just needed to adjust this screw here" could take Weeks if you need to send it out to LP or other online dealer.
I think it comes down to this.... If you trust your LDS and they do right by you, then show your support for them. If your LDS is a, don't care, money is everythig type of shop you would do better supporting a reputable store that has an online dept. like Divers Direct (or any of our buddies here that have shops..blatant plug for you guys), at least there/here you know there are divers working in the shop and you could ask a question if you needed. Unlike LP (I have been to their NYC locale), they are businessmen NOT divers (TRUST ME these guys are NOT Divers by any means), I would not TRUST them to answer ANY SCUBA related question. Whereas at my LDS I value theri opinion and recomendations greatly (they have been doing it for 15+ years)
Either way
dive safe.
WAC

 

[narcT]

However, all the preaching about supporting the LDS is pious nonsense, if the LDS happens to be a monopoly with an attitude, which, however helpful at times, could also injure or kill you in its disregard for the reality that dive equipment--even the lines they sell--still is much less than perfect.[/QUOTE]

Bingo!

There are dive shops around here with owners that have been diving since the 60's. You know what gear they recommend? Yeap, whatever is in their display case. If I start to talk about liking a certain dive computer or regulator their response is "oh thats a piece of crap!"...which means its not a brand they sell
:dazzler1:

I think a lot of owners misunderstood when they were told "attitude is everything" to mean "have an attitude and everyone will respect your opinion". :monkeydan

Research the gear you want on the net, then buy it where you can get the best deal(if an LDS has a good price buy it there). If you can get it off the net for half price, who cares if it has a warranty? I sure don't, if it fails I'll just buy another NEW one and throw the old one away...and I still only paid the price of ONE at an LDS.