AAAH! Jacket vs. BP/W

[The Wanderer]

As a beginning recreational diver, should I try to put together a good BP/W setup right from the start? The LDS carries a wide array of jacket BCs, and I want to support them (and I will for my air supply devices), but I need to try out a BP/W before I commit (ill check the local forum).

Your input is appreciated.
Chris in Michigan.

Chris,

You'll find many, many posts here on SB from people who went from a traditional BCD to a BP/W, but very few (if any) that went the other way. Do you wonder why divers, as they gain experience, make gear upgrades/choices?

Hmmmm....

I got trained on a BP/W (very recently), because I did a lot of research, and listened to a lot of very good divers. I bought a BP/W and I am thrilled with it.... and I would NEVER consider anything else.

P.S. I've had the pleasure to dive with people that have much, MUCH, more diving experience than I, and they all say...."nice gear!!!!"

Think about it.

 

[Matthew]

So i went to the LDS poking around about BP/W, since after seeing an overwhelming number of divers using them for everything from rec to tech. My LDS is the first place I have heard anyone bash the BP/W setup like they did. And of course they dont carry anything of the sort. I did my first day of pool dives for my open water class, I was using a Pro QD+ (rental), and I hated the lack of stability it provided, so that really pushed me back towards the BP/W, even tho the LDS wont sell it.

As a beginning recreational diver, should I try to put together a good BP/W setup right from the start? The LDS carries a wide array of jacket BCs, and I want to support them (and I will for my air supply devices), but I need to try out a BP/W before I commit (ill check the local forum).

Your input is appreciated.
Chris in Michigan.

Can you elaborate on how the Pro QD lacked stability? I'm curious because I own one and I find it to be very stable. I also believe your first day of pool sessions does not give you enough basis to evaluate your equipment.

If you really want to go with a bp/wings, I suggest that you finish your course in rentals. You can then try to get together and dive with people who are knowledgeable about bp/wings, who can guide you in trying out and putting together a good set-up. You won't fully enjoy the benefits of a bp/wing unless it is properly setup and fitted. Since your LDS does not promote bp/wings, it is likely that your instructor is not familiar with the system and you might just get bad advice.

 

[Furner]

Can you elaborate on how the Pro QD lacked stability? I'm curious because I own one and I find it to be very stable. I also believe your first day of pool sessions does not give you enough basis to evaluate your equipment.

If you really want to go with a bp/wings, I suggest that you finish your course in rentals. You can then try to get together and dive with people who are knowledgeable about bp/wings, who can guide you in trying out and putting together a good set-up. You won't fully enjoy the benefits of a bp/wing unless it is properly setup and fitted. Since your LDS does not promote bp/wings, it is likely that your instructor is not familiar with the system and you might just get bad advice.

The Pro QD seemed to want to put me in every position at the surface except upright or on my back. It would tip me to the side, forward, made no difference how fully the BC was inflated. At depth (well, at 12ft), it was a little better, but trying to kneel would throw me forward. I know that I cant really judge gear by one pool session, but the Pro QD didnt impress me at all. I will probably still be diving with it for my open water dives, since thats mostly what the LDS provides for rental gear.

Anyways folks I will be gone until the 19th, so I will check back in then.

Thanks
Chris

 

[DA Aquamaster]

There are a few crossover back inflate BC's around that offer the option of a stainless steel backplate. The Genesis Recon is one that I used extensively with the optional plate kit. It is actually very stable without the plate but has exceptional stability with doubles with the plate added. It is also very comfortable - more comfortable than my BP and wing - but is heavier and a lot bulkier when traveling and fairly expensive when the cost of the Recon and the optional plate kit are considered.

I normally use my BP and wing but there are certainly times when I miss using my Recon. As indicated above, backplates are very capable and flexible but are not the end all in bouyancy compensation technology. They do a lot of things well but may not always be the ideal piece of equipment for a specific diver in a specific situation.

Some of the other crossover option include OMS's Transplate harness which uses a regular backplate but a more comfortable set of straps and other options that make it similar to a BC. Abyss also offers their Rec 2 Tec BC that can also accomodate a backplate. Dive rite has their IQ pack which is doubles capable and uses smaller stabilizing plates but is not, in my opinon, as stable with doubles as a full fledged backplate.

The Pro QD seemed to want to put me in every position at the surface except upright or on my back. It would tip me to the side, forward, made no difference how fully the BC was inflated. At depth (well, at 12ft), it was a little better, but trying to kneel would throw me forward. I know that I cant really judge gear by one pool session, but the Pro QD didnt impress me at all.

Sounds like much of this is due to general trim issues and is not entirely related to the BC itself and in fact can be readily encountered with a BP/Wing set up as well.

I would withhold judgement until you complete the OW portion of the course and experiment a bit more with weight and trim.

 

[matt_unique]

Chris,

You'll find many, many posts here on SB from people who went from a traditional BCD to a BP/W, but very few (if any) that went the other way. Do you wonder why divers, as they gain experience, make gear upgrades/choices?

QUOTE]

BP/W's offer more options than a BC. You can easily switch wings based on whether you are diving doubles or singles. You can also change wings based on your gear requirements. If at some point in the future you need/want to begin diving doubles or carrying heavy gear you will have to upgrade to a BP wings.

I own a Seaquest Balance BC as well as a stainless steel bp with wing. You will not really notice much of a difference in my opinion in terms of what it feels like going through the water. They are a little more stable but I never experienced much instability with my bc.

The bottom line is - bp/w's operate the same, cost the same but often less, and you will never need to buy another rig no matter how your diving needs evolve. The same cannot be said for a bc. For the same cost why bother with a BC? If I had it to do again - I would have gone straight for the bp/w.

--Matt

 

[String]

You can get BCs with more than enough lift to carry a twinset and stages - its not exclusively wings that allow for this.

Personally i prefer a BC but again thats just personal preference.

Wings arent THAT common here for "recreational" diving. As a rough estimate here, we saw 4 full dive boats this weekend so totalling maybe 40 people. Of those 1 had a wing setup (twinset), all the others BCs of one type or another (some single, some double tanks).

 

[Rick Murchison]

Leave to go diving (in BP/W by the way) for the weekend and...
"Lack of Stability" in a Pro QD????
You have GOT to be kidding!
Then again, maybe not.
As stability is inversly proportional to maneuverability, it sorta depends on what you want. "Stability" means that when displaced from the desired position (for example the perfectly prone, feet up position preferred by some), the system will automatically return you to that position. This is wonderful if that's what you want.
Negative stability means that when the system is displaced from the desired position it will continue in the displaced direction into some undesired position - "turtling" with big steels is the prime example. I don't know anyone who wants negative stability.
Neutral stability means that the body will maintain any position into which it is placed, and is usually the ideal for the everyday recreational diver in general and for the underwater photographer in particular.
The Pro QD is about as good a rig as there is for neutral stability.
In a recent poll by Fathoms magazine, the world's top underwater photographers were asked what they preferred in BC's. All of 'em used a jacket of some sort.
So do I for my general recreational diving, and especially for picture taking at recreational depths. The only reason I ever use a BP/W is to carry a bunch of back gas.
Rick

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'll just stick with my bp/wing for everything. I use a little wing for little tanks and a bigger one for bigger tanks. i rig all the rest of my gear exactly the same for every dive that I do. Of course there's gear that doesn't get used every dive but the base rig stays the same.

Since first diving a bp/wing I haven't ever had any desire to dive in anything else and unless it was a really fantastic once in a lifetime dive I'd probably rather not do it than dive a bc.

 

[ScubaDadMiami]

If you use one style of equipment always (modified only as dictated by tank size, etc.), you will be proficient in that equipment always. Go with backplate and wings from day one and stick with it.

 

[jepuskar]

I started out with a jacket style BC and then went to a BP/W setup and I'm not going back. However, I don't regret starting out with a BC, I think it is good for new divers who have other things to worry about like getting your skills down right and just getting out and diving more. I say once you get the initial 'oh my, I am really diving' out of your system, then start to weigh the option of a BP/W.

You can't really realize the benefit of a BP/W until you have dove without one.

Jason