Here's a scenario that is closely related to this thread. I phoned two shops I have bought gear from in the past. The first one was away, so I left a message. The second one gave me information that I was looking for, and I committed to buy the equipment from him. A couple days later, the first LDS returned my message by phone. We spoke about the equipment, and he informed me that he just started selling this piece of gear, and that he could sell it for nearly 40% less than what I committed to buy it for from the other LDS. He didn't know anything about the other LDS price or that I even spoke to him. I called the first LDS back to let him know what the other shop offered to sell it for, and he was understandably upset. He is going to contact the manufacturer and squeal. I feel bad about the situation, and would rather buy from the first LDS, but the price difference is about $300. What would you do in that situation?
a view from a dive shop
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BUDMANOK
Contributor
I feel the exact same way about LDS. I'm not out to use/abuse them. It's just at this point in my diving I choose to use a combination of resources for my needs. If a shop has to order the item I need and have it shipped I can do the exact same thing. I walk in asking for what I need (not the person working behind the counter telling me what I need) if they don't have it then what am I supposed to do?
Sorry but I stand by my statement about forums like this lessening the need to have a face to face with a shop owner. Of course this is only based on my experience but I think it is more widespread than just me.
just one example
Before I got into underwater photography I tried to talk to some shop owners about it.I got nothing other than buy this camera I have for sale.
I went online asking for advice and I got real life answers from people that had been there done that. No I didn't follow all the advice given but it was sure better then what I got at the LDS.
BiddyNZ
Registered
To those of you who have read this and think the Abyss guy seems like a good kind of person, I can attest to that. A while back I found them on the Internet and emailed, saying when I am over in Sydney in early February 2013, could I arrange diving and gear hire - I really want to see a 'weedy sea dragon' in the flesh. Or even its cousin, the leafy sea dragon.
Their response was outstanding. They told me when and where to turn up in Sydney for free dives, how to book with a group, or how to book with one DM to maximise my chance of seeing the one particular critter I am keen to see in the flesh. And so I will pay to dive with them.
THIS type of service makes me want to shop there. To support the service. I feel the same about a couple of my local LDSs that I visit in my dive locations.
And personally, I'm happy to pay a few extra $$. Within reason, of course. I don't want to be scalped, but am happy to pay for that individualised advice and service, of the type Abyss definitely offers...
Biddy
Their response was outstanding. They told me when and where to turn up in Sydney for free dives, how to book with a group, or how to book with one DM to maximise my chance of seeing the one particular critter I am keen to see in the flesh. And so I will pay to dive with them.
THIS type of service makes me want to shop there. To support the service. I feel the same about a couple of my local LDSs that I visit in my dive locations.
And personally, I'm happy to pay a few extra $$. Within reason, of course. I don't want to be scalped, but am happy to pay for that individualised advice and service, of the type Abyss definitely offers...
Biddy
$300.00 is a lot of money to most people. That's where I'd go with the best price. That the other shop is going to squeal says a lot about how much markup is on the gear. I don't believe a mfg has any business telling a shop owner what he/she can do in a private transaction. Tell them what they can advertise for? Ok. Lots of businesses do that. But to have such control so that a guy trying to make a living and a sale can't make a private deal? No. That is none of the mfg's business. And it also tells you what kind of markup is on the gear. The one squealing is just a case of sour grapes. Tell them all they have to do is match the other shop and they'll get the sale. They either will or they won't. Up to them to step up and show just who owns and runs their business. Them or the mfg.
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Jim, the shop will risk losing their dealership if they violate the mfg's dealership agreement. Then they will see if 1 customer is worth losing an entire brand.
On the other end, I look at Mfg price fixing as illegal or a loophole that needs to be closed. A $300 difference does not sound right on a single piece of equipment anyway. A LDS would be limited in the options they offered customers if they only chose mfg's that did not have a minimum pricing requirement. Not just a minimum advertised price, but a minimum selling price. Some LDS's "package" deals to hide the cut price of their mfg price fixed items with other non-fixed price items.
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I too have been on your side of the counter as an owner of a LDS. Everyone wants to be appreciated. Unfortunately, many careers aren't held in as high esteem as those who work in those careers would like them to be. I'm sorry, but I have difficulty hearing any businessperson whine. Most Clients will continue to not care about how much work you have to do to provide them with an item or training program. They are primarily concerned about the cost. If they can get it cheaper elsewhere, many will. If you take money to fill a Nitrox tank after hours, the Clint will often think that you stayed open to take the cost of the fill and not to do him a favor. Even if this is realized, will he pay you $10 more for a regulator that can be purchased at a lesser price somewhere else? Probably not.
To work long hours without a large financial return, is what owning a small dive shop is all about. You can supplement income with dive charters and training, but it is what it is. I feel for you as I've been in this position myself. For me the shop was only a piece of a commercial diving operation and government registered training school. If my income was only related to the dive shop, I would have shut it down for insufficient financial return. Thankfully however the general public wasn't my largest customer.
Don't expect that people will appreciate what you do. Many people don't appreciate: Janitors, Waiters, Shoe Salespeople and most businessman. That doesn't mean that they aren't all important jobs. If you require appreciation, perhaps your in the wrong vocation...
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Price fixing was initially intended as a way to protect dealerships from price wars ... which to my concern is still none of the manufacturer's business. But manufacturers took the validity out of even that weak argument when they started making "gray market" products available to large internet retailers, who sell it well below what the same manufacturer allows their authorized dealers to sell it for. This is a game that only the manufacturer wins, because they make their money without having to honor warranty on their product ... which is effectively screwing their authorized dealers in a big way.
It's one of the major reasons why I tend to purchase equipment from the smaller, independent manufacturers who don't play that game ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
me thinks this whole thread belongs in "Whine & Cheese", not "Basic Scuba Discussions".......
iluvtheocean
Contributor
possibly?
in regards to mnstevet's post:
the price -- it still depends on what the minimum the manufacturer allows for a given volume reseller (if there is one) and how much profit the LDS is going for. Also of course is the question - can the shop afford to take a loss or break-even on the item(s), at least temporarily and whether or not the terms with the manufacturer allow anything like that ... not enough information is provided to even make an educated guess since not even what kind of gear is mentioned nor whether it's a single item or multiple. and yes "packages" will affect & hide price cuts - is it still legal or not? depends on the agreement with the manufacturer and local and/or federal laws.
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