A total lack of situational awareness.

[VikingDives]

How do you teach situational awareness in a two or three day course?

I don't teach two or three day courses, but I'm of the same mind as @wetb4igetinthewater.

The first step in teaching situational awareness is self-awareness. Knowing your body's place and position is the first step.

The "kneeling problem" in instruction is that it creates students (amongst other things) that are comfortable touching things underwater. When you start learning with NBT, your first objective is to descend, your second objective is to get off the bottom, because you're laying on your stomach looking "up."

Once you're hovering (and intentionally avoiding the bottom), that's when the real instruction starts. If it's not natural to touch the bottom in class, it won't be on the reef.

But you're right in your implication that most instructors rush their training by having large classes with overweighted students.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I don't teach two or three day courses, but I'm of the same mind as @wetb4igetinthewater.

The first step in teaching situational awareness is self-awareness. Knowing your body's place and position is the first step.

The "kneeling problem" in instruction is that it creates students (amongst other things) that are comfortable touching things underwater. When you start learning with NBT, your first objective is to descend, your second objective is to get off the bottom, because you're laying on your stomach looking "up."

Once you're hovering (and intentionally avoiding the bottom), that's when the real instruction starts. If it's not natural to touch the bottom in class, it won't be on the reef.

But you're right in your implication that most instructors rush their training by having large classes with overweighted students.

But if you teach them how to hover, stay off the bottom, and basic good buoyancy skills from the get go (before other skills are introduced) then how do you ever expect to make any money selling them a PPB class???

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

But if you teach them how to hover, stay off the bottom, and basic good buoyancy skills from the get go (before other skills are introduced) then how do you ever expect to make any money selling them a PPB class???

We sell them a GUE fundies like buoyancy course as our agency allows us to do so. PPB is designed to compensate for poor OW courses.

 

[tursiops]

PPB is designed to compensate for poor OW courses.

No, it will certainly do that, but that is not what it is designed to do. From the Instructor Manual for the course:

Do you have a problem with polishing a new OW diver's buoyancy? Surely you are not going to argue that a new OW diver has perfect buoyancy....

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No, it will certainly do that, but that is not what it is designed to do. From the Instructor Manual for the course:
View attachment 745753

Do you have a problem with polishing a new OW diver's buoyancy? Surely you are not going to argue that a new OW diver has perfect buoyancy....

Mel,

I'm a big believer in efficiency, and I knew this conversation would come up. We previously argued about the merits of PPB. The philosophy that you quoted doesn't matter one big. The performance standards do. Here is my post (to which you never responded) analyzing the similarities/differences.

So a lot of this is going to come down to philosophy and how one interprets standards. Let's not forget PADI's defintion of mastery: comfortable, fluid, and repeatable. While this can be interpreted as "student didn't drown while performing skill", let's not stoop that low.

Now when I first became an instructor, I was an on-the-knees one, overweighting by 5 lbs (our CD trained us to weight students in their dry suits without their scuba kit and then treat the scuba kit as neutral - it was ~5 lbs negative, not horrible, but not good either). As a sh!tty instructor, I would interpret many of the standards in the same way you do. Now as I improved in my teaching and eventually moved to completely neutrally buoyant and trimmed, I stopped interpreting standards in a lowest common denominator method (i.e., sh!tty) but interpreted in a way that I felt was consistent with the spirt of the standards.

Rather than make up information (as you count bullet points, not actual skills), let's actually quote standards. First, let me quoate the standards from the PADI PPB class. I will then repeat, but interject OW requirements and comments (and a few rhetorical questions).

PPB: Dive One:
• Rig a weight system with the following considerations in mind:
1. Estimate the amount of weight to begin a dive using PADI’s “Basic Weighting Guidelines” or the manufacturer recommendations (if using a rebreather).
2. Position and distribute the weight for comfort and desired body position (trim) in the water.
• Use visualization techniques prior to the dive to help you relax, establish a comfortable breathing pattern and move gracefully through the water.
• Conduct a buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.
• Make a controlled, slow descent to the bottom and, if needed, adjust for neutral buoyancy using the BCD.
• Adjust for neutral buoyancy at a predetermined depth.
• Hover for 60 seconds without rising or sinking more than 1 metre/3 feet by making minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba), or using very minor hand/fin sculling only (rebreathers).
• Make minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba).
• Swim horizontally, while neutrally buoyant without touching the bottom or breaking the surface of the water with equipment or body.
• Demonstrate efficient fin kicks, using long, slow strokes and gliding.
• Adjust weights (trim) and practice hovering in different positions – vertical, horizontal, feet slightly elevated and head slightly elevated.
• Conduct a postdive buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.

Dive Two
• Rig a weight system with the following considerations in mind:
1. Estimate the amount of weight to begin a dive using PADI’s “Basic Weighting Guidelines” or the manufacturer recommendations (if
using a rebreather), or based on experience from previous dives.
2. Position and distribute the weight for comfort and desired body position (trim) in the water.
• Use visualization techniques to help you relax, establish a comfortable breathing pattern and move gracefully through the water.
• Conduct a pre- and post-dive buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface
of the water with the BCD deflated.
• Make a controlled, slow descent to the bottom and if needed, adjust for neutral buoyancy using the BCD.
• Demonstrate efficient fin kicks, using long, slow strokes and gliding after each kick.
• Hover for 90 seconds without rising or sinking more than 1 metre/3 feet by making minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba), or using very minor hand/fin sculling only (rebreathers).
• Flood and clear your mask while holding a specific hover depth and compensating for sudden buoyancy changes (rebreather divers
only).
• Maneuver as close to a nonliving portion of the bottom (rock, sand, etc.) without touching it and then back away using neutral buoyancy with hand or fin sculling.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No, it will certainly do that, but that is not what it is designed to do. From the Instructor Manual for the course:
View attachment 745753

Do you have a problem with polishing a new OW diver's buoyancy? Surely you are not going to argue that a new OW diver has perfect buoyancy....

And the rest:

So let's start out with the first three bullet for both dives and bullet point 11 of the first dive:

• Rig a weight system with the following considerations in mind:
1. Estimate the amount of weight to begin a dive using PADI’s “Basic Weighting Guidelines” or the manufacturer recommendations (if using a rebreather).
2. Position and distribute the weight for comfort and desired body position (trim) in the water.
• Use visualization techniques prior to the dive to help you relax, establish a comfortable breathing pattern and move gracefully through the water.
• Conduct a buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.
• Conduct a postdive buoyancy check by adjusting the amount of weight worn to achieve neutral buoyancy at the surface of the water with the BCD deflated.

In the open water course, students are to:

(CW2) At the surface:
5. Adjust for proper weighting — float at eye level at the surface with no or minimal air in the BCD and while holding a normal breath.
(CW3) At the surface in water too deep in which to stand:

2. With a buddy, perform a weight check and adjust for proper weighting.
(CW3) Underwater:

6. While neutrally buoyant, swim slowly in a horizontal position to determine trim. Adjust trim, as feasible, for a normal swimming position.
[Note: this is actually incorrect as finning can mask poor trim. Diver has to be absolutely still and see how they tilt]

(CW4)

At the surface in water too deep in which to stand:
1. With a buddy, perform a weight check and adjust for proper weighting and trim.
(CW5) Underwater:

4. Complete a simulated dive – Minidive – including:
• With a buddy, practice previously learned skills with emphasis on neutral buoyancy, hovering and swimming.
(OW1) At the surface:
5. Check and adjust weighting.
(OW2) At the surface:
4. Adjust weighting and trim, as necessary.

So what's the difference here really? The visualization techniques? Is that a skill? You don't do that anyway?

If you interpret standards by the lowest commond denominator, well, that's just you. Conclusion: performance standards are essentially the same.

Bullet points 4 for PPB dives 1 & 2, bullet point 4 for dives 1:
• Make a controlled, slow descent to the bottom and, if needed, adjust for neutral buoyancy using the BCD.
• Adjust for neutral buoyancy at a predetermined depth.

In the open water course, students are to:
(CW1) Underwater:
9. Descend at a controlled rate into water too deep in which to stand, equalizing the ears and mask.
(CW2)
Underwater:
10. Use low-pressure BCD infl ation to become neutrally buoyant. Gently rise and fall in a controlled manner, during inhalation and exhalation.
(CW4)
Underwater:
4. With a buddy, descend in water too deep in which to stand using the five-point method and use buoyancy control to stop the descent without contacting the bottom.
(CW5) Underwater:

4. Complete a simulated dive – Minidive – including:
• With a buddy, practice previously learned skills with emphasis on neutral buoyancy, hovering and swimming.
(OW2) Underwater:
8. Become neutrally buoyant by adjusting air in the BCD (or dry suit) with the low pressure inflator.
(OW3) Underwater:
6. Descend with a visual reference for control to no greater than 18 metres/60 feet. Use the fi ve-point method.
7. Become neutrally buoyant and hover by inflating the BCD orally.
(OW4) Underwater:

Underwater:
6. Descend with no visual reference to no greater than 18 metres/60 feet. Use the fi ve-point method.


I think that skill in PPB is fairly well covered in OW. Different language, but hey, 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Bullet points 6 & 7 for PPB dive 1, bullet point 6 for PPB dive 2:

• Hover for 60 seconds without rising or sinking more than 1 metre/3 feet by making minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba), or using very minor hand/fin sculling only (rebreathers).
• Make minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba).
• Hover for 90 seconds without rising or sinking more than 1 metre/3 feet by making minor depth adjustments using breath control only (open-circuit scuba), or using very minor hand/fin sculling only (rebreathers).


In the open water course, students must:

(CW3) Underwater:
5. Hover using buoyancy control for at least 30 seconds, without kicking or sculling.
(CW4) Underater:
6. Orally inflate the BCD to hover for at least one minute, without kicking or sculling.
(CW5) Underwater:
4. Complete a simulated dive – Minidive – including:
• With a buddy, practice previously learned skills with emphasis on neutral buoyancy, hovering and swimming.

So hovering for 60 seconds and then 90 seconds is really such a big step from 30 seconds, then 60 seconds? Conclusion: basically the same.

Bullet points 7 and 8 for PPB dive 1, point 5 for PPB dive 2:
• Swim horizontally, while neutrally buoyant without touching the bottom or breaking the surface of the water with equipment or body.
• Demonstrate efficient fin kicks, using long, slow strokes and gliding.
• Demonstrate efficient fin kicks, using long, slow strokes and gliding after each kick.

In the open water course, students are to:
(CW4) Underwater:
5. With a buddy, swim over a simulated environmentally sensitive bottom while maintaining buoyancy control.
(CW5) Underwater:
4. Complete a simulated dive – Minidive – including:
• Demonstrate awareness and make efforts to avoid contact with simulated sensitive bottom and fragile aquatic organisms.
(OW2, OW3, & OW4) Underwater:
13. Avoid contact with sensitive organisms and the bottom, and resecure any equipment that becomes loose.

So inefficient kicks are part of open water and these are finally introduced in PPB? Give me a break. Drifting after a kick is really a skill? "I know how to pause finning. I'm an awesome diver!" LOL.


Bullet point 10 for PPB dive 1:
• Adjust weights (trim) and practice hovering in different positions – vertical, horizontal, feet slightly elevated and head slightly elevated.
We all know Buddha hovers are bullsh!t. Horizontal is just more of the same. Feet/head slightly elevated, meh. Not that different from just a hover.
Bullet point 7 for PPB dive 2:
• Flood and clear your mask while holding a specific hover depth and compensating for sudden buoyancy changes (rebreather divers
only).
I don't know about you, but I don't consider any skills to be mastered if they are not done neutrally buoyant and they don't change depth dramatically. It isn't that high of a bar, but appears to be for many instructors. So it comes down to this. If one is a sh!tty instructor, PPB is raising the bar. If one isn't a sh!tty instructor, then PPB isn't.

It all comes down to how standards (and the spirit of the standards) are interpreted.

Bullet point 8 for PPB dive 2:
• Maneuver as close to a nonliving portion of the bottom (rock, sand, etc.) without touching it and then back away using neutral buoyancy with hand or fin sculling.

Okay, so this is one new one. I will concede that. But teaching hand sculling? That's just insane. That's what bad divers do. Why would anyone teach bad habits? Oh yeah, those same instructors place students on the knees.

At least there is some leeway there for good instructors to teach backfinning. But it really should be required. From the lowest common denominator of standards interpretation, there really isn't much of a difference. For a good instructor, there's just backfinning.


So in conclusion: take fundies!

 

[tursiops]

Can you be more succinct?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Can you be more succinct?

The devil is in the details. So no.

 

[tursiops]

The devil is in the details. So no.

3 Smart Ways to Keep Yourself From Rambling

Speaking up is great, but talking too much can actually work against you.

www.themuse.com

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

3 Smart Ways to Keep Yourself From Rambling

Speaking up is great, but talking too much can actually work against you.

www.themuse.com

Well, comparisons sometimes take time.

Otherwise people like you accuse me of agency bashing. But when I present my case in full, you can't do that.

So Mel, sorry, you can't have your cake and eat it too.