a retreat from DIR

[grazie42]

Originally Posted by grazie42
but if your shoulders are higher, doesen´t that, per definition mean that you aren´t horizontal?
Originally Posted by Soggy
No...human beings are not square.

If anyone´s still interested I still want to talk about this...(i´m not convinced that people are)...

The fact that humans aren´t square (well...nevermind), while not a big surprise, still doesent explain why the whole area from your shoulders to your knees can´t be horizontal...if you don´t dive this way, how can you say that you are horizontal?

what soggy discribed sounds like diving concave/convex (I can never remember which is which)...is that really DIR (or more importantly "good")

I still don´t understand how a spg on a crotch-ring is a greater risk than one on the hip d-ring...assuming you don´t have a beer-belly THOSE places, at least, should have the same "z-value"...

I, really, genuinly want to understand how that can be, would someone enlighten me?

 

[jonnythan]

If you're perfectly parallel from shoulders to knees, the most obvious problem is going to be that you can't see a freaking thing. You won't have a good place for your arms, since your shoulders need to be up to keep your hands comfortably in front of you.

The most effective position is to have the belly/crotch area be the lowest point on the body.. for visibility, finning, etc.

Putting the SPG on the crotch D-ring would make the hose interfere with anything on your left side, like a deco bottle. It would also make the SPG the lowest point of the diver system instead of the belly/crotch area. You wouldn't be able to see it without either unclipping it or shoving your head totally upside down, which is counterintuitive and disorienting.

On the hip, the hose is out of the way of bottles, it's easy to reach, it's not hanging down from you, and it just works.

 

[grazie42]

If you're perfectly parallel from shoulders to knees, the most obvious problem is going to be that you can't see a freaking thing. You won't have a good place for your arms, since your shoulders need to be up to keep your hands comfortably in front of you.

I can se below me and to the sides by turning my head as well as a few feet in front. My buddies light will be in my field of vision or mine will be in his. I don´t know where y´all dive but viz here is seldom so good that looking into the distance will let you see anything but a blue/green screen.

I don´t dive "snowplow" so that isn´t an issue.

Being horizontal doesen´t seem to effect my finning at all (that I´ve noticed)...it´s not a race anyway...

Putting the SPG on the crotch D-ring would make the hose interfere with anything on your left side, like a deco bottle. It would also make the SPG the lowest point of the diver system instead of the belly/crotch area. You wouldn't be able to see it without either unclipping it or shoving your head totally upside down, which is counterintuitive and disorienting.

That´s just not true...I´ve dived this way with 2 decobottles without any issues at all. At MOST it would be a ½-inch lower, I CAN see it by bending my kneck slightly and I don´t need to unclip it...

On the hip, the hose is out of the way of bottles, it's easy to reach, it's not hanging down from you, and it just works.

The hose is routed the same...it just continues past the hip d-ring and on to the crotch-ring while lying flat against the waist-strap...On the hip, it is "competing" for space on the d-ring with decobottles, it is below the decobottles so not easy to reach...I agree that it works...I´m just not sure it´s optimal...

Thank you Soggy and Jonnythan for stating why you (and I guess DIR) think it´s a bad idea to have the spg on the crotch-ring...I´ll think about it and decide...the greatest con, to me, so far is gear removal...I´ll give it some thought...

 

[Soggy]

That´s just not true...I´ve dived this way with 2 decobottles without any issues at all. At MOST it would be a ½-inch lower, I CAN see it by bending my kneck slightly and I don´t need to unclip it...

If you can read the gauge by just looking at it, it is hanging down more than 1/2". Since most brass SPGs are 1" thick, even if it was flush against you, it would still be an inch below you, but you wouldn't be able to read it that way. In order to read it, the face has to be facing you, which means, given most gauges are 2" in diameter and all are negatively buoyant, it hangs *at least* 2 inches below your entire body. Now, add a bolt snap (unless you have it zip tied directly to your Dring) and you've added another inch or so. I know, it doesn't sound like much, but a diver's with that configuration would be akin to an F14 landing on an aircraft carrier with the hook down....it's going to catch on anything and everything in its way. The goal is to streamline (not from a drag coefficient point of view, from a smooth and sexy point of view) as much as possible to avoid things jutting off of you waiting to catch on line. I'm surprised that you don't see a gauge hanging below you like a dingleberry as a problem.

On the hip dring, it is up and out of the way.

As for your questions about trim...unless you are a contortionist, if your crotch/belly is not the lowest point on your body you are not in trim. It's that simple.

 

[grazie42]

I´m going diving tomorrow...it´s increasingly apparent that I´m useless at explaining myself...I´ll try to get my buddy to take a picture and hope it´ll be worth a 1000 words...

In the meantime I´ll try to explain it again...I wont be able to post pics ´til sunday (assuming my buddy manages my POS-camera...)

I´ve used "caveline" to tie the clip "rigid" to the spg. If I point the clip "forward" (in front of the face of the spg) the tension on the connection between clip and spg will keep the spg level with the clips "hook". The edge of the face of the spg is flush against my body. If I´m going wreckdiving I´ll turn the face to lie flush against my body and only turn it 90dgrs before I look at it and then turn it back (which is still easier, and a smaller movement than the unclip/clip sequence)...

If my gauge was hanging below as a dingleberry, that would be a problem, but it doesen´t so it isnt...

 

[Soggy]

I anxiously await pictures of your "solution."

 

[Dive-aholic]

Great post, GDI!

 

[TSandM]

Great post, GDI!

As always.

Great, reasoned stuff from Rick, always. If I ever head for Florida for cave training, Rick will be on the short list of instructors.