A Reg that can't freeze??????

[neil]

otter-cat,

You'd think, huh? I used to live where there was ice diving, and I never saw a double hose reg. But then, a True Texan would probably just suck the oxygen right out of the water directly

Neil

 

[buff]

The U.S. Navy said the Poseidon Odin was the best ice diving regulator.

 

[ScubaScott]

Originally posted by buff
The U.S. Navy said the Poseidon Odin was the best ice diving regulator.

Buff - I would love to know exactly what the Navy does to the Poseidon regs to make them there #1 choice. Don't get me wrong, I think the Odin is a good reg, but check out my first dive of the year http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=79286&t=7608#post79286 and I think that explains my current feelings on them pretty well.

Now in the Odins defence, the 1st stage was not sealed at dive time. I believe any UNSEALED reg very possibly would have free-flowed in those conditions. The IP was also tuned at factory setting (150). However, for all the hype that comes around the Poseidon name, I was a little dissapointed.

So after many discussions on ScubaBoard, seeking out facts/fiction/opinions/rumours, I now dive Apeks TX50/DS4. However, I only have one quick dive on it so far , to 35' in 37 deg water - no issues, but can't make a comparrison to the Odin yet.
Stay tuned, more to come........

SS

 

[WreckWriter]

As I recall to ready an Odin for ice diving you need a little rubber cap which is then filled with vodka and put on the end of your 1st stage.

Tom

 

[ScubaScott]

Originally posted by WreckWriter
As I recall to ready an Odin for ice diving you need a little rubber cap which is then filled with vodka and put on the end of your 1st stage.

Tom

You got it Tom - I wish I had known that before I jumped into the water. Now I'm certainly not a tech, or somebody who could rebuild a reg, but the manual instructions couldn't be more vague for the installation of the cap. I had the tech at the LDS do it, but I haven't dove with those regs since.

SS

 

[pescador775]

Otter, the subject you have broached is rather complicated. I have purposely abstained because my knowledge of these subjects is TOO extensive. There are only two double hose regulators on the used gear market which would be suitable for ice diving; these are the Royal Aquamaster and the Nemrod Snark III.

The Royal Aquamaster(not the "Aquamaster") is a two stage balanced design with venturi assist in the downstream second stg. This regulator has one low pressure outlet on the right side and NO high pressure fitting. A SPG can only be fitted with something called a "tongue adapter", or as some yokels call it, a "banjo" adapter. This takes a hp hose with 3/8 thread . The setup will only work with newer regulators with the "long" yoke and in conjunction with fairly slim tank valves. The LP port is a 1/4 inch oxygen nut which can be adapted by cutting off the end of a standard hose and swaging on the correct fitting. The regulator itself is totally bulletproof. The second stage is capable of blowing 30 cu ft per minute, easily within the modern range of regulator performance. However, because of pressure differentials, the regulator will appear somewhat hard to inhale when the diver is inverted or horizontal. In the vertical, it will inhale as easily as a single hose. However, although inhaling is harder sometimes (about 5 inches of water column), EXHALING is easier than the single hose. These regulators can be "tuned" by increasing the intermediate pressure from normal 110 psi to 120 psi. The demand lever height is factory set but can be readjusted when the second stage seat is replaced. A used regulator will have to be stripped and all parts, mainly the rubber parts must be inspected. The high pressure seat should be replaced by a modern urethane seat from Aqua lung (Titan seat). The mouthpiece check valves should be replaced by silicone. There are two outfits that can rebuild double hose regs, Diving Technology in Orlando, FL and the other in Washington state (Vintage Scuba).

Once rebuilt, the double hose regulator will normally work reliably for years without further attention.

If you need a description of the Nemrod technicals, I will be glad to oblige. I didn't think so (GGGG).

Pesky

 

[buff]

ScubaScott-

Sorry to hear about your troubles and good to hear that you came out all right.

With regards to your freeflow event: One incident does not make a study. I do not doubt that the Odin can be made to freeze and result in free flow-it is a rare event.

I have the seal for the first stage but have not installed it. Many divers in Sweden(where Poseidon is headquartered) don't even install the freeze kit. The U.S. Navy recommends installation of the kit and the use of vegetable oil-this is very messy. Many divers use alcohol and vodka in particular.

First stage freeze up is a rare phenomenon. The first stage does bring the pressure down from thousands to hundreds and in doing so cools rapidly. But the most important element for first stage freeze up is (hopefully) missing: water vapor. This has been filtered out during the tank fill. So, even though there is a huge cooling effect the air is dry and it cannot freeze.

Second stage freezing is by far the most common site of reg. freeze up. This is just due to the large amount of water vapor being expelled from the divers mouth. In addtion, poor handling of the second stage prior to water entry can result in freezing but this is an experience issue.

There is a post on this board from a technical representative from Apeks who goes into detail regarding reg. freeze up. It's interesting to note that he does not believe that "de-tuning" a regs I.P. 10-20 PSI will have much effect on freeze up. The latter is a point that I have debated on this board with Lost Yooper who has decreased his I.P. with success.

At any rate it's interesting physics and psychology.

 

[ScubaScott]

Originally posted by buff
ScubaScott-

Sorry to hear about your troubles and good to hear that you came out all right.

With regards to your freeflow event: One incident does not make a study. I do not doubt that the Odin can be made to freeze and result in free flow-it is a rare event.



..............

At any rate it's interesting physics and psychology.

Yep, I agree Buff. This was the only time I've ever had a problem with the Odin, and I wouldn't want my perhaps very isolated incident to deter anyone from the Odin. Perhaps just to let people know that they are not "bulletproof" or "unfreezable" thats all. Many dives in <40 deg water with no other problems.....also I think I was bummed because I had to eat my confident, perhaps boastful words, when he had no problems with his "much cheaper" setup (his own words).

With regards to detuning the regs - I have no evidence. I detuned the Odin by 10#, got the rubber cap put on, and my Apeks came in............ I will dive with the Odins again sometime...... and yes, interesting physics and psychology........

SS

 

[Norm]

My Poseidon has never frozen, but as many of the Brittish divers have expressed, mine has blown ice crystals on many occasions! Although it feels like little rocks going down your windpipe the reg has functioned fine so far. I've had ice to skim over the first stage on my Sherwoods but it never affected the operation of them. I've never seen ice on the Zeagles yet but time will tell. I still would never say that there is a freeze proof reg out there. A second stage with a knob is the way to go, whatever you dive. In the event of a freeze up you can simply valve off the freeflowing second stage and continue up on your octopus.

 

[pescador775]

Otter, I know you are not serious about getting a double hose but in case some ice diver is reading this with interest I can save that person some time in getting outfitted. Firstly, due to pressure differentials, theory tells us that double hose regulators work best with double tanks of modest diameter. The ideal set would be double 72's or other doubles not exceeding 7 inch dia. However, I have used them with double Navy 90's @ 7.25 dia with success so that is not a strict rule, and similar LP tanks like 82's should work well.

The tank manifold must be the yoke type with below center mounting for the regulator. Also, it is most convenient to have an extra manifold outlet controlled by its own "on" knob for a spare (single hose) regulator which is your octopus and mounts various lp hoses, etc. The correct manifold has these features and was in production by Sherwood for several years back in the 70's and early 80's. This manifold has two valves joined, it features a center outlet for the primary (two hose) regulator and an outlet on the right or left side for a spare single hose regulator. Each outlet is controlled directly by a knob and can be turned on/off at any time.

This is probably the best ice diving rig available, everything considered. There is a slight DIR incorrectness (well, many) in that the tanks can not be completely isolated from each other, but what the hey....?

<valve-outlet>......<valve-outlet>......<manifold elbow>
TANK/single hse.....double hose...................TANK

Pesky