A pre-dive meal at KFC or MickeyD's to reduce risk of DCS?+

[DocVikingo]

Nahhh.

Nitrogen washout during a fatty meal while breathi... [Aviat Space Environ Med. 2011] - PubMed result

Regards,

DocVikingo

 

[danvolker]

Nahhh.

Nitrogen washout during a fatty meal while breathi... [Aviat Space Environ Med. 2011] - PubMed result

Regards,

DocVikingo

Since many divers are chronically dehydrated ( most people in general don't drink enough water each day), and on some days this gets much worse than others, this is where they should spend some research dollars.....We already know the a well hydrated diver can hold more gas in solution than a dehydrated diver....
Issues:

• Is one or two gallons a day of water a holy grail difference ....from 4 cups a day, for a diver? For peak performance in cycling and related aerobic sports it IS. Clearly electrolytes need to be added as well, but not garbage drinks like Gatorade ( adding huge sodium where the need is Potassium..plus bioavailable calcium and magnesium) I suggest ther 1 to 2 gallons of water a day is separate from the electrolyte ( which willo be either additional drinks of a low/no sugar sport drink or an electroylte powder...along the lines of Alacer Electro Mix....
• How about divers being tested on the optimal hydration side as just discussed, along with the dehydrated ones...dopplered an hour after diving.
• Maybe show degree of "need" for hydration for a diver in a wetsuit on a 93 degree dive day, over a 6 hour period.....amount of water lost in sweating and urination ( catheter them like dry suit divers I guess? ) for the day....and show effects of alternative hydration choices most divers usually make---coke, water, gatorade...noting that sodas are what most diveboats offer ( sugar versions and diet) , and some choosing gatorade under delusion it is a proper electrolyte drink..... see one good sports drink for comparison -- Understanding Hydration

 

[JanK]

Since many divers are chronically dehydrated ( most people in general don't drink enough water each day), and on some days this gets much worse than others,

What do you base this statement on? If it's the old myth that you need to drink 8 glasses a day, it's just that: a myth. So please check out snopes.com: Eight Glasses of Water a Day for some facts concerning this.

If you're up to some more advanced reading, try a meta study that can be read on-line at “Drink at least eight glasses of water a day.” Really? Is there scientific evidence for “8 × 8”?, where a part of the conclusion is

Thus I have found no scientific proof that we must “drink at least eight glasses of water a day,” nor proof, it must be admitted, that drinking less does absolutely no harm. However, the published data available to date strongly suggest that, with the exception of some diseases and special circumstances, such as strenuous physical activity, long airplane flights, and climate, we probably are currently drinking enough and possibly even more than enough.

Another more recent study, available at http://www.asn-online.org/press/pdf/2008-Media/Water Study.pdf reached very similar conclusions.

Additionally, while I've also read and heard "be hydrated or get DCS", once you start dig deeper, this does not seem to be so evidently true. For instance, Technical diving. Proceedings of the Divers Alert Network 2008 January 18-19 Conference says on page 179:

Dehydration is widely cited as a predisposing factor for DCI, and logically,
treatment protocols frequently refer to rehydration as an important first-aid
strategy. There is more uncertainty about this than is usually reflected in the
“popular literature.” While it makes sense that dehydration might predispose to
the adverse effects of bubble formation, there are only sparse data supporting
the idea. In fact, two different animal studies drew opposite conclusions (3, 4).
With respect to treating DCI, critical cases exhibiting hypovolemic shock
(severely low blood volume) plainly require aggressive intravascular fluid
therapy as a life saving measure, but it is much less clear that rehydration makes
any difference in DCI of mild or moderate severity.

BTW, on this very page it is stated that

"Gatorade" is close to an ideal oral rehydration fluid (5).

and in the article "RISK FACTORS FOR DECOMPRESSION SICKNESS" on page 116 it states that there is weak evidence of dehydration being a risk factor.

I am, of course, in favour of research in this area, as hydrating yourself, if it is indeed a risk factor, is relatively simple (especially if, apparently, we're not as dehydrated as is commonly perceived). But money could perhaps better be spent in other areas of research.

BTW, I would never trust a web site selling a "H2O Overdrive" product to provide something resembling science behind hydration - it could well be quackery. For instance, the pompous "The Future of Hydration is H2O Overdrive" subtitle does not inspire much confidence.

 

[Jax]

What do you base this statement on?

Dan Volker's reputation is known on this board. On what are you basing your statements? A Snopes' decry of a single myth, and an opinion from the 3-year-old DAN proceedings?

Sugared drinks, even Gatorade, have long been lamented as a poor way to hydrate.

:caveman:

 

[Jax]

Sports Drinks - Better than Water?

http://www.ihs4life.com/index_files/Page364.html:

Read the label - you will be surprised when you see that bottle of Gatorade® is delivering 32 grams of sugar per 20 ounce bottle….or that Vitamin Water ® is supplying you with 32 grams of sugar and that Red Bull® would be serving up a whopping 60 grams of sugar if you were to drink 20 ounces of it. That is A LOT of sugar. Think about it - 35 grams of sugar actually cancels out all of the calories burned on a 20 minutes run...so where is the benefit???? All of this sugar is actually doing you more harm than good. High amounts of sugar cause insulin spikes – this is when insulin is secreted in large quantities in a very short period of time – these spikes in turn trigger the “negative side” of insulin – wherein most of these excess simple carbohydrates are converted from “energy producing” to being stored as fats in the adipose tissue under the stimulus of insulin. To state it more simply – these “extra sugar calories” trigger a down pouring of insulin – that causes these “sugar calories” to be stored as fat instead of as energy. Which in turn can result in weight gain instead of weight loss and can promote diabetes, tooth decay, stalls weight loss and actually increases weight gain. Sugar is the last thing you want in a real sports beverage, hydration or rehydration drink.

 

[danvolker]

What do you base this statement on? If it's the old myth that you need to drink 8 glasses a day, it's just that: a myth. So please check out snopes.com: Eight Glasses of Water a Day for some facts concerning this.

If you're up to some more advanced reading, try a meta study that can be read on-line at “Drink at least eight glasses of water a day.” Really? Is there scientific evidence for “8 × 8”?, where a part of the conclusion is



Another more recent study, available at http://www.asn-online.org/press/pdf/2008-Media/Water Study.pdf reached very similar conclusions.

Additionally, while I've also read and heard "be hydrated or get DCS", once you start dig deeper, this does not seem to be so evidently true. For instance, Technical diving. Proceedings of the Divers Alert Network 2008 January 18-19 Conference says on page 179:



BTW, on this very page it is stated that



and in the article "RISK FACTORS FOR DECOMPRESSION SICKNESS" on page 116 it states that there is weak evidence of dehydration being a risk factor.

I am, of course, in favour of research in this area, as hydrating yourself, if it is indeed a risk factor, is relatively simple (especially if, apparently, we're not as dehydrated as is commonly perceived). But money could perhaps better be spent in other areas of research.

BTW, I would never trust a web site selling a "H2O Overdrive" product to provide something resembling science behind hydration - it could well be quackery. For instance, the pompous "The Future of Hydration is H2O Overdrive" subtitle does not inspire much confidence.

First, state of the art ideas on nutrition for sports performance are not likely to come from mainsttream medical doctors, however well intentioned they are...The people getting the best information, are the ones working directly with top athletes, finding ways to optimize performance, and get this to be easily repeatable.
I get most of my ideas from a guy named Terry Giles, a long time friend of mine, and one of the top sports performance gurus. He has created dozens of the best protein and other supplement lines for many of the biggest sports nutrition companies, and "within that community--the people in sports performance and supplements, they all know Terry Giles".

Terry used to train the biggest Body builders, some of the top triathletes, and many top athletes in a lot of sports, and create special custom supplements for them. When he trained body builders, a week of training and diet from Terry would practically guarantee a top 3 placing in a Mr Universe level show....so these were like $20,000 weeks, back in late nineties when he still did that....
Any athlete he trained, would be told to drink 2 gallons of water per day, in addition to any sports drinks they consumed. The effect, would be increased metabolic efficiency, better utilization of fats and better removal of wastes. His athletes would get more "ripped". They would get stronger, and faster, and recover better.

Suger products were always discouraged, as bad, and the H2O Overdrive example, a drink Terry created, actually works far better for an elite level cyclist or other competitive aerobic athlete, than any thing else I have ever tried. It would destroy gatorade in any test, although that says little, as coke can do almost as well as gatorade....

Your snopes concept is fine for the general non-athletic public to use, but someone looking to reach their ultimate potential, will not benefit from the type of research you are dealing with via snopes.

Before I would be willing to engage in an arguement with you about this, try doing some research on the effects of protein and carbs in a ratio for hydration effects...and why hydration is better with the correct ratio, than with just water itself...

Look at why you want more potassiun than sodium in an electrolyte....something Gatorade fails badly in.... I think the original gatorade formula, the one back in "early 80's?" , which tasted like lemon lime flavored sweat, DID have more potassium than sodium...when Gatarade was purchased by Kraft or some other big food company, they took the name, then changed the formula to taste good, with practically no performance benefit....Lance Armstrong on a main leg of the Tour, could not use a drink with this much sugar.... It is a drink sold to make money with, and one that has probably contributed to more adult diabetic conditions than anything other than coke and pepsi. Creating insulin sensitivity, should get some attention, why are you not dealing with this?


Everything I am writing about here, in terms of results, I have tried myself.....I even sponsored a Cat 3 cycling team last year, that had the same results with this hydration issues as I did.

 

[Jax]

:focus:

Nahhh.

Nitrogen washout during a fatty meal while breathi... [Aviat Space Environ Med. 2011] - PubMed result

Regards,

DocVikingo

DISCUSSION: These data suggest that raising blood triglycerides via a high-fat meal does not affect the rate of whole-body nitrogen elimination. The lack of effect of the increase in cardiac output may be due to an increased blood flow to the gastrointestinal tract being negated by decreased blood flow in other vascular beds.

So they make a study of "this doesn't work at all". :huh:

 

[Dirty-Dog]

Even if there were some slight decrease as regards DCS risk, I'd think the increased risk of heart attack, stroke, or just plain blowing chunks from the noxious mess that passes for food at those joints would be far more significant...

 

[TSandM]

There are some misstatements in the hydration article. The vast majority of cell membranes in the human body are permeable to water; therefore, water moves by osmosis, or osmotic gradient. In that sense, water goes where electrolytes are -- but it does not MOVE with electrolytes, as, for example, glucose does. It is certainly true that drinking water initially replenishes the intravascular space, and then the extracellular, and finally the intracellular space; however, if you have reached a point in dehydration where you are significantly intracellularly volume depleted, you are dry, indeed.

It would be my guess that Dan's original statement, that a lot of divers are mildly dehydrated, is probably true. A lot of diving takes place in warm places, and exposure protection also creates thermal stress and sweating. A fair number of people probably control their fluid intake because of the issues regarding outflow, too Since dehydration is extremely commonly blamed for "unexplained" DCS, it would make a lot of sense to study the influence of hydration on bubble formation -- but it appears that some of that kind of research has been done. And it's rather difficult to estimate an individual's state of hydration without fairly expensive means, so making such research precise would have its challenges.

I am extremely dubious that hyperhydration is useful in any way; it certainly does not "wash toxins out of the body". If you drink more water, your urine becomes more dilute, that's all -- it doesn't increase in volume, but with the same concentration of solutes.

 

[TSandM]

There are some misstatements in the hydration article. The vast majority of cell membranes in the human body are permeable to water; therefore, water moves by osmosis, or osmotic gradient. In that sense, water goes where electrolytes are -- but it does not MOVE with electrolytes, as, for example, glucose does. It is certainly true that drinking water initially replenishes the intravascular space, and then the extracellular, and finally the intracellular space; however, if you have reached a point in dehydration where you are significantly intracellularly volume depleted, you are dry, indeed.

It would be my guess that Dan's original statement, that a lot of divers are mildly dehydrated, is probably true. A lot of diving takes place in warm places, and exposure protection also creates thermal stress and sweating. A fair number of people probably control their fluid intake because of the issues regarding outflow, too Since dehydration is extremely commonly blamed for "unexplained" DCS, it would make a lot of sense to study the influence of hydration on bubble formation -- but it appears that some of that kind of research has been done. And it's rather difficult to estimate an individual's state of hydration without fairly expensive means, so making such research precise would have its challenges.

I am extremely dubious that hyperhydration is useful in any way; it certainly does not "wash toxins out of the body". If you drink more water, your urine becomes more dilute, that's all -- it doesn't increase in volume, but with the same concentration of solutes.