7 divers missing off Indonesian island

[Golo]

I'm a little confused about the way the group got separated and I'm wondering if the Japanese press might shed some light.

The beginning of this thread described that 6 of the 7 had surfaced and drifted together having been separated from one diver on the first day. However, the interview of the rescued dive leader Saori informs that she left the group on Saturday morning to try to get attention from a passing tugboat, was unsuccessful and also unable to rejoin the rest of the divers.

If the report above is correct, then all 7 of them must have been together after the dive and spent the first night (Friday) together.

I'd say the report/interview above is what I would trust most at this point, as that's from interviews with the divers. I am not sure if she was the dive leader though, as it was two guides and five guests.

IMHO, with good buoyancy control you don't really need gloves with diving in most areas that part of the world. You could just carry a reef hook for those unexpected situations, but mostly just learn to drift and enjoy that as part of the dive.

If I have to climb up a rock in choppy waters, like these divers had, I don't think good buoyancy control or knowing how to drift helps. And "in an emergency situation", which I was saying, there is nothing to enjoy. Holding onto something because someone wants to look at something or bumping into the ground because of bad buoyancy is not an emergency situation in my book.
A reef hook might have helped them in order not get pulled back into the sea, but I have never used one, never hold one, so I don't know how feasible that would be.

Have you got a photo of the size of the container?

I got this one: Custom Divers Dive Canister
You can read more about size and fit here: Scuba diver's Personal Locator Beacon - how never to be lost at sea

 

[rusti999]

If the report above is correct, then all 7 of them must have been together after the dive and spent the first night (Friday) together.

That appears to be the case based on the divers' statements. One of the two instructors then tried to swim to a boat, but to no avail, and she couldn't rejoin the group because of currents, but she ended up on some rocks. The remaining 6 reached some other rocks also, 4 of them made it out of the water, but the other two didn't. Given the face injuries of the deceased diver, I wonder if she got smashed by the waves. And the other instructor still is not found, and I think now the search for her is called off...

 

[svalbard_25]

I read the sad story on this thread with great dismay. My daughter was part of the group of eight English, French and German divers that drifted off from the same dive site in July 2012 (another contributor, Internet Pawn’s daughter was also in this group). That such a similar incident should happen, and with such dreadful consequences to another group is truly awful. It is only by enormous good fortune that both incidents did not result in all participants perishing.

As a diver myself, and with clear access to the detail, I have been through and essentially understand exactly what happened in the 2012 incident. Obviously for the latest incident I am constrained to what has been reported. Nevertheless it is clear that there are some similarities, starting with the actual dive, proximity to a full moon with its attendant effects on currents, and of course the behaviour of the accompanying dive boats. In my daughter’s case they were rather more fortunate than the Japanese girls – despite being swept 15 miles from land, they were picked up close to midnight in washing machine type whirlpools and 3 – 4 metre waves by a stray fishing boat several hours after the official search such as it was had been called off due to bad weather. Fortunately all were essentially unharmed.

Like all incidents of this type (I won’t use the term accident because that suggests something unfortunate and unexpected, rather than something that results from poor planning and poor execution), the situation in 2012 developed from a number of errors. The most significant was the dive boat remaining anchored when it should have been following the divers, and the lack of anyone from the dive operator to support the boat skipper. There was also a total lack of understanding of the risks of this dive – the briefing was that this was a completely straightforward, pleasant dive with no particular risks, with which to finish the day. There were a number of other errors. All of them, including the behaviour of the dive boat, come back to the dive operator who is responsible for organising the whole dive. I find it very disappointing that the dive operator when my daughter was diving, Dive Concepts in Tumbalen, not only appears to still be operating, but indeed to have expanded to a number of other locations.

I have noted on this board comments many of which are clearly by dive professionals, some of whom are from the Bali area. And they have been very useful comments that not only will I take on board for my own and my daughters’ safety in future, but which also suggest that there are some good operators in Bali.

The problem is that these incidents tar all Bali operators with the same brush. There have now been at least two major incidents in the Nusa Penida area in less than 18 months which only by extreme good fortune did not result in 15 casualties, but have still left two dead or disappeared. There have also been other casualties from other incidents. It must be the case that the overall standards of diving operators (and I include their responsibility for dive boat management in this) in Bali are not sufficient for the conditions there. Of course there will be many good operators in Bali – but most recreational divers are not in a good position to sort out the good ones from the bad.

I can only hope that this latest incident, which fortunately has had wide publicity, serves two purposes
a) Persuades divers that the dive operators in Bali are not as a group sufficiently focussed at present on their safety to make it worthwhile to dive there – there are other stunning places where the standards are higher
b) Persuades the dive industry in Bali to clean up its act, to work with the local government and international diving organisations such as PADI to ensure appropriate standards are met, to name and shame the poor operators etc

I do hope that I will not be reading next year about divers being swept out to sea from the Mangrove dive site on Nusa Lembongan, or indeed anywhere else in Bali – but I fear that is a forlorn hope. They are unlikely to be as lucky as the five Japanese who survived, or the eight from 2012.

 

[Shasta_man]

The diver with the facial injuries may well have been knocked unconscious by the waves and rocks. I'll take a moment here to remember we are talking about a terrible situation and fellow human beings.

I'd agree that a reef hook isn't really relevant for climbing out of the water because it is so short. It's also not a device for all conditions, really being meant for allowing you to "fly" in place while the current comes at you from a single general direction. If it's swirling around, then it's not going to hold you in position because it should be just hooked to prevent movement in one direction. You need to be able to get it loose to leave. Even the ebb and flow of the current can cause it to dislodge and then away you go. Swirling or really strong currents could make the reef hook a liability as an unfortunate few people have found in Palau with them unable to release while it swirled them around smashing about.

I wear gloves on every dive in every place because I always seem to find the tiny little jellies that zap you and cause the weird rash on your hands which just adds to the issues on the trip. I also wear them because if you need to grab the reef, it tends to be razor sharp in most places and have lots of biological stuff that embeds in such cuts and causes big problems. I don't intend to ever touch the reef but when you need them the situation won't be voluntary and your hands can be ribbons in no time. Usually the photogs on the boat are doing much more damage every day with their strobes in everything. Or the very educated but ignorant doctor that was picking up nudibranches to look at them then dropping them wherever, etc, etc.

 

[Greenjuice]

If I have to climb up a rock in choppy waters, like these divers had, I don't think good buoyancy control or knowing how to drift helps. And "in an emergency situation", which I was saying, there is nothing to enjoy. Holding onto something because someone wants to look at something or bumping into the ground because of bad buoyancy is not an emergency situation in my book.

Thanks. Yes, I understand now. I was going to reply but Shasta_man got in before me.
I definitely agree with you that in the situation of climbing on steep sharp rocks, having gloves would be better than not. Also a good reason to wear booties & fins with straps instead of full foot fins.

Non-touch reef protection must be a high priority, but I'm guessing that in situations of risk of personal injury, this would become less important. Ultimately, of course, prevention is always better than cure and to try to minimise the risk of getting oneself into a bad situation in the first place.

 

[matts1w]

The Jakarta Globe is reporting the boat captain has been arrested.

 

[AggieDiver]

b) Persuades the dive industry in Bali to clean up its act, to work with the local government and international diving organisations such as PADI to ensure appropriate standards are met, to name and shame the poor operators etc

It would be great to see the largest training agency in the world come up with a ratings system that would tell their divers whether operators were following standard safety procedures and properly equipped to deal with the hazards their divers might face. Unfortunately, I don't think working with PADI will get much of anywhere for the Bali operators (or any others), since PADI's "5-star" rating for dive centers apparently has very little to do with quality and is mostly based on how many PADI certifications and training materials they sell.

 

[Greenjuice]

Extraordinary example of Japanese culture in that article:

'Four of the rescued divers were earlier Thursday discharged from hospital and prepared to return home, bowing to reporters as they left the building.
“We apologise for causing tremendous worries and trouble,” one of them said.'

 

[Peter69_56]

I'd say the report/interview above is what I would trust most at this point, as that's from interviews with the divers. I am not sure if she was the dive leader though, as it was two guides and five guests.



If I have to climb up a rock in choppy waters, like these divers had, I don't think good buoyancy control or knowing how to drift helps. And "in an emergency situation", which I was saying, there is nothing to enjoy. Holding onto something because someone wants to look at something or bumping into the ground because of bad buoyancy is not an emergency situation in my book.
A reef hook might have helped them in order not get pulled back into the sea, but I have never used one, never hold one, so I don't know how feasible that would be.



I got this one: Custom Divers Dive Canister
You can read more about size and fit here: Scuba diver's Personal Locator Beacon - how never to be lost at sea

I have one of these containers and have had issues with the original one. The current one has never flooded. The original flooded several times once setting off my PLB. It appeared to be a manufacturing issue as I checked everything a stack of times, replaced O rings etc, and it was only when I measured the sealing face dimensions I found there was no interference fit for the O ring. How this could happen I don't know, but after some complaining and too and froing, I had it replaced. The current one has not flooded however I am cautious not to open it. Leave well enough alone while it seals.

They also make an industrial one made from Aluminium which I intend on getting in preference to the bakerlite/plastic one. It should be a bit more robust I think. I love the idea of being able to carry one and would not be without mine, particularly when diving in open ocean or areas with currents. I also carry a Lifeline radio but that's less affective in some areas due to lack of radios and also lack of range. In Australia its not a problem but in places like Bali or Pacific Islands less effective.

 

[matts1w]

It would be great to see the largest training agency in the world come up with a ratings system that would tell their divers whether operators were following standard safety procedures and properly equipped to deal with the hazards their divers might face. Unfortunately, I don't think working with PADI will get much of anywhere for the Bali operators (or any others), since PADI's "5-star" rating for dive centers apparently has very little to do with quality and is mostly based on how many PADI certifications and training materials they sell.

As always someone needs to inject PADI negatively into the discussion...

I am 99% confident that neither of the dive operations mentioned in this thread are affiliated with PADI or any other agency outside of being instructors. There are numerous people selling "backpacker" or discount scuba trips in this part of the world. Not always, but often, they operate way below an acceptable level of safety. In fact, I would venture to say that using an operator who does proudly carry a PADI 5 Star rating, or another agency's equivilant is a very good idea. I ALWAYS point people toward shops and resorts that have established themselves as leaders in their community, active in the dive industry, have a strong online presence, and have made a name for themselves for many years, not just an instructor who is a PADI or SSI member. Fact is, diving with them isn't going to be the cheapest option in the area, but it doesn't have to be the most expensive either. Sadly it takes some learning and research to figure out what goes where, especially when anyone with a tiny bit of tech skills can make a good looking website.