7 divers missing off Indonesian island

[Jan Kruger]

When surface conditions deteriorate as much as in this case surely the dive should be aborted ? The dive boat that was unprepared ...the dive should not have been allowed ! The boat then left them ? In such bad conditions ?
We have done multiple dives from a boat but when the fuel level became an issue, we cancelled further dives... returned to our base and dived again the next day. Thank goodness that some divers were found alive !

This boat operator should be jailed!

 

[Golo]

I just read on a Japanese news page (link) that the group of six made it to the rocks, however Takahashi Shoko and Ritsuko Miyata were then taken away by waves when Takahashi Shoko tried to help the other diver climb up the rocks.

Now here are a few things I have been thinking about, reading about this accident.

My dive doctor said it is not recommended to go diving the day after arriving at the destination (if it involves a long flight) as I might not be in the best physical condition due to lack of proper sleep (long travel, jetlag). This group arrived just the day before. Tokyo and Denpasar are just an hour apart, so no jetlag, but it is a 12-13 hours flight.

As vacation time is rather limited, I could imagine a lot of people do go diving the next day, as did I when I went to the Philippines about two months ago. I told people there I might not be doing the early dive, or none at all the day after my arrival because of the long flight, but when I got up in the morning I felt fine and went diving. But I could imagine if there would have been a dive that would have pushed me, I would have reached my physical limit earlier compared to being fully rested.

I have dived in Thailand where there was a "no gloves" policy, so people would not grab corals etc. I can understand why, but in an emergency situation, I think I would much rather hold onto a coral/rock while wearing gloves.

And finally, I do plan to get a PLB. Aready got a dive container for it.

 

[chillyinCanada]

The way I've read the rescued instructor's telling of the story is that conditions at the beginning of the dive didn't seem to warrant calling the dive. As I see it, the whole problem was the boatman. I don't know if one can be arrested for reckless endangerment in Bali but at a bare minimum, he should be precluded from ever driving for divers, snorklers and any other tourist activities.

 

[The Wolf]

When surface conditions deteriorate as much as in this case surely the dive should be aborted ? The dive boat that was unprepared ...the dive should not have been allowed ! The boat then left them ? In such bad conditions ?
We have done multiple dives from a boat but when the fuel level became an issue, we cancelled further dives... returned to our base and dived again the next day. Thank goodness that some divers were found alive !

This boat operator should be jailed!

The problem with all of this is too many things went wrong to pin point it exclusively on the boat operator alone. I know some people may disagree with me but the dive leaders are responsible in setting protocol and making hard decisions on situations like this where the weather is likely to turn south and the decision to abort and go home rather than pursue the dive...having said that, the boat operator will probably get away with jail time given there is no set precedent in Indonesia or Asia for that matter on what to charge individuals in this instance with....

There has not been a case thus far which resulted in prison sentences to my knowledge. Though I do stand to be corrected if this is not the case.

---------- Post added February 20th, 2014 at 07:58 PM ----------

The way I've read the rescued instructor's telling of the story is that conditions at the beginning of the dive didn't seem to warrant calling the dive. As I see it, the whole problem was the boatman. I don't know if one can be arrested for reckless endangerment in Bali but at a bare minimum, he should be precluded from ever driving for divers, snorklers and any other tourist activities.

My problem with this is before the dive, you can see the storm coming in and you can figure out to a degree how bad the storm is likely to be...I am based out here in asia as well and you generally have to play it safe especially with afternoon dives as winds pick up and so do the currents...I know, it's easy to have hindsight and to comment now but dive leaders are there to make important decisions and it's their decision making that at the end of the day must be also questioned.

I am sorry if this comment has offended anyone but I just think there is not enough insight into the decision making for the 3rd dive given there was a storm coming in.

 

[Internet_Pawn]

The problem with all of this is too many things went wrong to pin point it exclusively on the boat operator alone. I know some people may disagree with me but the dive leaders are responsible in setting protocol and making hard decisions on situations like this where the weather is likely to turn south and the decision to abort and go home rather than pursue the dive...having said that, the boat operator will probably get away with jail time given there is no set precedent in Indonesia or Asia for that matter on what to charge individuals in this instance with....

There has not been a case thus far which resulted in prison sentences to my knowledge. Though I do stand to be corrected if this is not the case.

I will be very interested to see what action is taken against the boat operator, but I think I can already take a good guess. In the 2012 incident here's what I was told by the dive company (names removed to protect the guilty): "the captain of [the dive boat] has been in jail , but the company he is working for , paid the fine , and he is now out".

This is at odds with the official line, as reported to the British Consulate in Bali, which was: “The investigating officer confirmed that no arrests were made regarding this incident and the report determined that “the case was an unfortunate event due to bad weather”. The police have stated that no further action will be taken in this matter.”

It doesn't take too much reading between the lines to see that money changed hands, and then miraculously no-one was at fault. Expect more of the same.

Justice systems operate for a reason, and that reason is to protect the public. The justice system didn't operate properly last time, nothing changed and, as a consequence, two Japanese ladies have died. Something needs to be done to break this cycle.

 

[The Wolf]

I will be very interested to see what action is taken against the boat operator, but I think I can already take a good guess. In the 2012 incident here's what I was told by the dive company (names removed to protect the guilty): "the captain of [the dive boat] has been in jail , but the company he is working for , paid the fine , and he is now out".

This is at odds with the official line, as reported to the British Consulate in Bali, which was: “The investigating officer confirmed that no arrests were made regarding this incident and the report determined that “the case was an unfortunate event due to bad weather”. The police have stated that no further action will be taken in this matter.”

It doesn't take too much reading between the lines to see that money changed hands, and then miraculously no-one was at fault. Expect more of the same.

Justice systems operate for a reason, and that reason is to protect the public. The justice system didn't operate properly last time, nothing changed and, as a consequence, two Japanese ladies have died. Something needs to be done to break this cycle.

That was generally what I was hinting at (getting away with it)...which is why I can't see this really 'going to trial' and even if it does, anyone going to jail for a lenght of time.

Indonesia is indonesia...I have been in situations where people have fallen 25 meters off a cliff due to a lack of safety protocols by rope leaders in Malaysia and nothing has happened despite police reports being made and demands for police action and the involvement of the prosecutor's office.

I am not putting a lot of faith in the justice system in Indonesia. But, the diving community perhaps can sit down and see how things can be improved to avoid a repeat of this and maybe come up with more guidelines and perhaps some level of training for all dive boat skippers to help them with decision making and planning for each daily dive and also introduce more safety protocols for bad weather/currents/dive groups.

Things can def. be improved though I know, through friends, there are some excellent dive companies over there in Bali who do care and do work hard and keeping things tight.

 

[Internet_Pawn]

I am not putting a lot of faith in the justice system in Indonesia. But, the diving community perhaps can sit down and see how things can be improved to avoid a repeat of this and maybe come up with more guidelines and perhaps some level of training for all dive boat skippers to help them with decision making and planning for each daily dive and also introduce more safety protocols for bad weather/currents/dive groups.

I just wanted to highlight this comment. It has to be the way forward.

 

[zivva]

But, the diving community perhaps can sit down and see how things can be improved to avoid a repeat of this and maybe come up with more guidelines and perhaps some level of training for all dive boat skippers to help them with decision making and planning for each daily dive and also introduce more safety protocols for bad weather/currents/dive groups.

Most of the local dive ops meet in Lembongan on a so-so regular basis.

"We" (I'm more in this as a spectator now, diving being not my main activity anymore) have been working among other things on safety & setting up protocols for a year now (since the incident involving Internet_Pawn's daughter in fact). This clearly needs to be extended to ops visiting the area (which is not so easy : we're talking about +/- 50 dive ops all around Bali). Local ops will meet next week and obviously this incident and how to address the lack of communication + global safety protocols setup will be the main focus of the meeting.

 

[tracydr]

While we hope for a good outcome for the last diver and pray this does not happen again, I can give an example from another part of the world:

Great diving with occasionally strong and challenging currents in a remote location with limited SAR and evacuation facilities is a feature of the islands off the East African coastline. I am aware of one operator that requires Dive Guides to conduct the entire dive with an SMB on a reel (exhausting in itself, if there are strong winds and waves pulling from the surface, if you have ever done this). They also only do two dives a day, both in the morning; providing an extra safety margin - time to mount an SAR in daylight and to call for airborne support from the mainland.

I'm sure the decision to put client safety so far above profitability must have weighed heavily on these dive operators and respect them for their courage in implementing what they believed was necessary for diver safety above all else.



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We had the strongest I've ever seen off of Pemba Island, Tanzania. Nobody could swim against the current and, because there were many different currents going different ways, we ended up spread out over about a mile a few times. It took the two pangas about 1 1/2 hours to pick everyone up one of the dives. The afternoon and night dives were the craziest.
We were there during the fall/winter/spring summer season change ( we saw all four seasons by crossing the equator more than once) and also a full moon. I think these factors made for even stronger currents.
The boat drivers would try to follow bubbles and did a fantastic job finding everyone on the stronger current days.

 

[Greenjuice]

I just read on a Japanese news page (link) that the group of six made it to the rocks, however Takahashi Shoko and Ritsuko Miyata were then taken away by waves when Takahashi Shoko tried to help the other diver climb up the rocks.

Now here are a few things I have been thinking about, reading about this accident.

My dive doctor said it is not recommended to go diving the day after arriving at the destination (if it involves a long flight) as I might not be in the best physical condition due to lack of proper sleep (long travel, jetlag).

I have dived in Thailand where there was a "no gloves" policy, so people would not grab corals etc. I can understand why, but in an emergency situation, I think I would much rather hold onto a coral/rock while wearing gloves.

And finally, I do plan to get a PLB. Aready got a dive container for it.

I'm a little confused about the way the group got separated and I'm wondering if the Japanese press might shed some light.

The beginning of this thread described that 6 of the 7 had surfaced and drifted together having been separated from one diver on the first day. However, the interview of the rescued dive leader Saori informs that she left the group on Saturday morning to try to get attention from a passing tugboat, was unsuccessful and also unable to rejoin the rest of the divers.

If the report above is correct, then all 7 of them must have been together after the dive and spent the first night (Friday) together.


Your dive doctor is just giving generic sensible advice about being in a good condition and feeling good before diving.


IMHO, with good buoyancy control you don't really need gloves with diving in most areas that part of the world. You could just carry a reef hook for those unexpected situations, but mostly just learn to drift and enjoy that as part of the dive.

Have you got a photo of the size of the container?

Thanks.