6 divers missing off Sangalaki

[Dalixa]

Indonesia, tre sub dispersi: "Non possiamo escludere il rapimento per soldi" - Milano - Il Giorno - Quotidiano di Milano, notizie della Lombardia

This mornings Italian newspaper states that the Italian ambassador in Indonesia thinks that this maybe a kidnapping though no ransom has been asked for.
They contest the fact that Oslan says he emerged with the divers only 200m from his boat but the crew did not see them or hear his whistle because of the waves while none of the snorkelers or boat crew confirm that there were 2m high waves, in fact diving activities went on as normal in the area. Oslan says that they emerged at 15:00 he stayed an hour with his group of divers and then swam for 2 hours before being saved by his boat while it results that he was picked up at 17:00, so the time does'nt coincide. Also he gave them his dive gear but took the safety sausage with him instead of leaving it with the floating divers, then he says that he asked another boat for help but they did not pick him up because that they had to wait for their own divers but they did say that they would contact his boat whereas the crew of that boat denies that they saw Oslan!
Personally I think this is a tragic accident and all of this is just speculation. The families have opened a bank account and are asking for donations to carry on the search, it is a very sad thing to happen....

---------- Post added August 30th, 2015 at 04:30 PM ----------

The family also has a page on Facebook called
Help us to find Alberto in Indonesia

---------- Post added August 30th, 2015 at 04:33 PM ----------

I regularly dive in Italy and we have less access to all of the safety devices that you are mentioning.
from what I have read the only signaling device that this group had is one smb between the group...

---------- Post added August 30th, 2015 at 05:11 PM ----------

... Forgot to mention that the families are offering a reward of $20,000 for any information leading to the recovery of the divers....
it must be unbearable not to know what has happened to them....

 

[InGearX]

Mystery surrounds missing Italian divers - The Local

Not much else. I've been asking all our local divers and the general public but getting nothing, not even gossip about what might have happened.

wait the dive-master was with them ..

the two Italian friends who were snorkeling were there .. where is the official word / statement from them?

we dive out there as well

we deserve to know what happened - these our brothers and sisters!

 

[bowlofpetunias]

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[PygmySeahorse]

I've only dived Barracuda Point when it happened to be quiet, though I've been washing machined through Big Fish Country, but I've snorkelled Sangalaki twice and dived it twice - with schools of mantas on each occasion, and reef-hook current.

For several dives in the region, I've hung a foot off a moored boat into the water, and the surface current has raced around me, audibly rippling, and tugging, as if the boat were underway or as if I were dangling a limb in a fast-flowing river. The attractions at Sangalaki are all about high-current.

It sounds to me -- not least from the absence of details such as surnames - as though the missing divers went with one of the cheap operators on Derawan island (a local guy with some gear and connections to the fishing boats). The advantage of that is cost, and guiding can be excellent - some of the old-school Indonesian DMs can be amazing divers.

The disadvantage of that, as others have pointed out, is the boat crew: you're not talking about a dive boat, when you're doing low-cost independent diving, but a fishing boat, and they won't have the knowledge to look for you or, most likely, sufficient gas/power either. Not saying that Indonesian dive boat crew are paragons -- the sleep thing continues to impress me - but they're better than fishermen, because they do look after divers for a living.

It really pays to be cautious about who you dive with in Indonesia, and where you dive, and when: I met someone who drifted off Morotai for 24 hours before being picked up by a boat (pure chance) while en route to the Philippines. And if there's one learning I'd take from this, it's that: really, be careful who you go with, particularly if it's out into the middle of the ocean.

Typically, also, Indonesian and Philippine operations are quite blase about safety, experience etc. My first dive after qualifying as an open water diver was a wreck penetration at 31 metres. I knew enough to know that wasn't a great idea and insist on a personal DM, but not enough to know how insanely dangerous it was (I almost got lost at a turn in the hatchway) - that was Coron, but Indonesian attitudes are similar.

It's very possible that some of the larger operations in the region weren't diving that site that day for whatever reason - moon phase, currents, wave height - and that this guy was prepared to dive it, which is why they went with him. The wave height doesn't sound that plausible to me: it can get choppy in September, but normally, AFAIK, the waves only get big around Christmas time.

I'm contemplating a trip to some very obscure islands off South Halmahera, and this thread is informative for me. As in, I'm not at all sure it's a good idea to go, based on who I'll be diving with.

Re: the PLB discussions. The idea that an alarm going off will prompt immediate action and phone calls from Indonesian police and coast guard is optimistic. That's just not how things work here. You're entirely reliant on your operator and their boat crew, and perhaps your embassy if your PLB has a hotline to the embassy.

 

[Centrals]

If the dm could swim against the current for 2hrs then the current should'nt be very strong at all.
The survival story by the dm is just too hard to believe.

 

[HDVdiver]

I've only dived Barracuda Point when it happened to be quiet, though I've been washing machined through Big Fish Country, but I've snorkelled Sangalaki twice and dived it twice - with schools of mantas on each occasion, and reef-hook current. For several dives in the region, I've hung a foot off a moored boat into the water, and the surface current has raced around me, audibly rippling, and tugging, as if the boat were underway or as if I were dangling a limb in a fast-flowing river. The attractions at Sangalaki are all about high-current. It sounds to me -- not least from the absence of details such as surnames - as though the missing divers went with one of the cheap operators on Derawan island (a local guy with some gear and connections to the fishing boats). The advantage of that is cost, and guiding can be excellent - some of the old-school Indonesian DMs can be amazing divers. The disadvantage of that, as others have pointed out, is the boat crew: you're not talking about a dive boat, when you're doing low-cost independent diving, but a fishing boat, and they won't have the knowledge to look for you or, most likely, sufficient gas/power either. Not saying that Indonesian dive boat crew are paragons -- the sleep thing continues to impress me - but they're better than fishermen, because they do look after divers for a living. It really pays to be cautious about who you dive with in Indonesia, and where you dive, and when: Re: the PLB discussions. The idea that an alarm going off will prompt immediate action and phone calls from Indonesian police and coast guard is optimistic. That's just not how things work here. You're entirely reliant on your operator and their boat crew, and perhaps your embassy if your PLB has a hotline to the embassy.

I'm inclined to agree with much of what you say. A few months ago I dived there with the same guide (Oslan) and probably from the same boat. Oslan was an excellent dive guide...and despite tough conditions the boat crew did a good job.

The bottom line is that we engage in a potentially dangerous sport. So many variables come into play to influence the success or otherwise of each dive. No two dives are the same...and that includes how well the boat crew conduct their responsibilities. I've done hundreds of dives throughout the Indonesian Archipelago and I don't have one reason to complain about dive master or boat crew safety. However, it only has to happen once.

Discussing "dive boat crews" or what the DM did or didn't do will never prevent or solve the problem. Divers have been left behind and died from top class liveaboards (including Egypt and Australia). However, diver complacency is the real problem as far as I'm concerned. Why did these divers not have a PLB? Why assume "it won't happen to me"...it's happened to many, many divers around the world for decades.

The only difference now is the technology is so good and affordable to finally make it viable for each diver to be responsible for him/herself. Why aren't the training agencies pushing the need for PLB safety?

I continue to be amazed by the skepticism concerning PLB's for divers. The satellite signals are monitored by Cospas-Sarsat, an International satellite system co-ordinated by USA, Russia, France and Canada and has nothing to do with the Indonesians.

If the diver has pre-registered, the PLB signal will show who he/she is. The relevant Indonesian authorities would be notified and the subsequent rescue should be a relatively trivial exercise since they will know exactly where to go...to within a few meters from the PLB's GPS data stream. One boat or one helicopter would do it. This is an order of magnitude easier that expecting a foreign government to launch a massively expensive S&R effort over a potentially massive area of ocean.

 

[PygmySeahorse]

I continue to be amazed by the skepticism concerning PLB's for divers. The satellite signals are monitored by Cospas-Sarsat, an International satellite system co-ordinated by USA, Russia, France and Canada and has nothing to do with the Indonesians.

If the diver has pre-registered, the PLB signal will show who he/she is. The relevant Indonesian authorities would be notified and the subsequent rescue should be a relatively trivial exercise since they will know exactly where to go...to within a few meters from the PLB's GPS data stream. One boat or one helicopter would do it. This is an order of magnitude easier that expecting a foreign government to launch a massively expensive S&R effort over a potentially massive area of ocean.

Glad you agree with much of what I've said, and thank you for your comment. You're clearly a very experienced diver so would know what you were getting into with a dive guide here: I'm not at all sure that these guys knew what they were getting into at all. (Eg: I did a lot of diving in Egypt. When Sinai dive guides talk about "very strong current" they mean something that's a bit tough to fin against, AKA "a bit of current" in Indonesia. If the guy said, "I'm not sure we should go there because the current is very strong", meaning, it's a full moon and there's a known killer downcurrent and it's running 7 knots and no one else will take you there" they might have heard "it will be a bit like Thistlegorm where you might want to spend some time inside the shelter of the wreck to make progress a bit easier". Then once they got down, they'd have had one competent dive guide to four guys in a downcurrent. /end speculation

I'd like to unpack what my issue with the PLB is. It relies on an Indonesian government organisation correctly receiving something technical - lawyers, banks and government agencies don't typically do email, and government websites are routinely down (they just set up new ones, usually) - and then coordinating action on it in a timely manner.

If the PLB set off a signal that alerted a developed-country embassy to ring up the Indonesian government and say "We have a lost citizen here, go get them" it would work. But, normally, to get much stuff done in Indonesia, it's face to face or phone, and something like a digital alert just wouldn't work. Particularly not somewhere near the Derawans. You have entire government offices with staff of 20-30 people and no computer in the outer reaches of Indonesia.

There are people who've done much more Indo diving and been in Indo much longer than me on this thread. But, essentially, pro-PLB people are coming from a headspace where tech systems basically work. And anti-PLB people are coming from a headspace where tech systems basically don't, and even essential systems (from blood donation to paying your electricity bill) can often depend on a person going physically to one place at the appropriate time and then only. The norm in Indonesia is that electronic systems don't function.

Or: to precis. Who do you think is going to receive the PLB signal, and how do you think they are going to know what it is?

It wouldn't have helped these guys anyway. People who choose to dive with the cheapest operator rather than one of several reliable but expensive ops in the region aren't going to front up for PLBs (and are usually either very experienced divers who can handle anything, like you, or very inexperienced divers who don't know what they don't know yet, which I suspect may be the case with these guys).

But what I want to get to is: How do you think the relevant Indonesian authorities will notice someone is trying to notify them? Who will be sure the system has the correct, current mobile phone number for the relevant department? (I have Indonesian gov't official cards with 5 numbers on them, none of which work, and that's not unusual.) Are we imagining a flashing light on a computer screen somewhere in the Derawans? In Jakarta? Where?

 

[HDVdiver]

I'd like to unpack what my issue with the PLB is. It relies on an Indonesian government organisation correctly receiving something technical - lawyers, banks and government agencies don't typically do email, and government websites are routinely down (they just set up new ones, usually) - and then coordinating action on it in a timely manner.

If the PLB set off a signal that alerted a developed-country embassy to ring up the Indonesian government and say "We have a lost citizen here, go get them" it would work. But, normally, to get much stuff done in Indonesia, it's face to face or phone, and something like a digital alert just wouldn't work. Particularly not somewhere near the Derawans. You have entire government offices with staff of 20-30 people and no computer in the outer reaches of Indonesia.

There are people who've done much more Indo diving and been in Indo much longer than me on this thread. But, essentially, pro-PLB people are coming from a headspace where tech systems basically work. And anti-PLB people are coming from a headspace where tech systems basically don't, and even essential systems (from blood donation to paying your electricity bill) can often depend on a person going physically to one place at the appropriate time and then only. The norm in Indonesia is that electronic systems don't function.

Or: to precis. Who do you think is going to receive the PLB signal, and how do you think they are going to know what it is?

It wouldn't have helped these guys anyway. People who choose to dive with the cheapest operator rather than one of several reliable but expensive ops in the region aren't going to front up for PLBs (and are usually either very experienced divers who can handle anything, like you, or very inexperienced divers who don't know what they don't know yet, which I suspect may be the case with these guys).

But what I want to get to is: How do you think the relevant Indonesian authorities will notice someone is trying to notify them? Who will be sure the system has the correct, current mobile phone number for the relevant department? (I have Indonesian gov't official cards with 5 numbers on them, none of which work, and that's not unusual.) Are we imagining a flashing light on a computer screen somewhere in the Derawans? In Jakarta? Where?

A few years ago the day boat I was on out of Sharm left a Portuguese tech diver behind on the Thislegorm...and it had nothing to do with the current. The diving conditions were quite good. Just a bad head count before the return trip. This was with Camel Dive...one of the best dive operators in Sharm. The skipper got a radio call halfway back in the evening from another boat that picked the guy up...very embarrassing.

My point is it can happen anywhere, anytime. In fact, the smaller local operators in Indonesia are usually quite good...but human error still happens. The Japanese woman who died last year in Bali (the others in the group were eventually rescued) was the DM and dive shop owner who organized the high current drift dive. Even she couldn't anticipate that the dopey skipper would decide to make a quick trip back to shore to refuel...when he should have been following the divers bubbles.

Based on my experiences in Indonesia over many years, I completely disagree with your perception of the Indonesian infrastructure and mindset as being incapable and or unwilling of dealing with a PLB alert! Since my first visit to Indonesia in 1978 I've watched it become a relatively modern and well organized nation. For the most part the people are friendly and have a strong sense of national pride and social responsibility.

"The norm in Indonesia is that electronic systems don't function." Sorry, but this is ridiculous!

The internal airline system is quite excellent...and computer based. Communications are quite decent...probably more reliable in remote areas that here in the Australian outback. I've had some involvement with the Indonesian military and dive with serving officers. I am impressed at the rate of high tech modernization in their armed forces and the overall intelligence of the people in charge. The military would probably be involved in any rescue involving a foreigner and I would have no doubts about my rescue once I'd activated a PLB.

Given that Cospas-Sarsat would be monitoring everything that went on regarding the rescue...and no doubt the embassy of the diver(s) would be notified...things would get done reasonably quickly. There is no comparison between a directed, strategic rescue of a diver in a known location and an almost random S&R over a massive expanse of ocean.

I am absolutely certain that a PLB would have saved the lives of those divers. However, given the fact that they apparently didn't even have one safety sausage between them (only Oslan had one) diver safety awareness and education still has a long way to go.

 

[PygmySeahorse]

"The norm in Indonesia is that electronic systems don't function." Sorry, but this is ridiculous! The internal airline system is quite excellent...and computer based. Communications are quite decent...probably more reliable in remote areas that here in the Australian outback.

You must have lived in a bit of Indonesia that doesn't have powercuts or island-wide internet outages, where the arrivals and departures boards in the airports always work, where there is mobile phone signal at all times, and where emails are sent to working email addresses accompanied by working websites. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that's not the Derawans. I'm a huge fan of Indonesians and Indonesia, which is why I live here, but remote areas are just not good on infrastructure (and there's plenty of zones in JKT with no running water, for that matter, and our area, in a far from remote part of Bali, relies on wells - no government water). Obviously, that's a vast leap since 1978

But, anyway, as per my last post, could you explain to me in layman's terms what would happen when a PLB went off? A text to someone? A computer alert to a computer that's been set up for it? An alarm in a dedicated station? And then what would happen next? I don't doubt that the local Indonesian military would act on instructions to find the PLB, and I don't doubt the signal would go off: my issue is what happens between signal going off and local military acting on it. Who would receive it? Where? How would they know what it was? Has it been disseminated as part of military training that "there's this thing called a PLB and we need to find it?" I just don't know.

Has anyone ever successfully activated a PLB in Indo? I'd be curious.

 

[Dave1w]

Pygmy, you are pretty spot on, the infrastructure isn't quite as explained above, even here in Jakarta, let along at the northern part of Kalimantan. I have started to do some digging ( and picked up a second PLB today) and I am hoping to find out the true perception and understanding of PLBs etc. here. As I understand, BASARNAS (?) are actually linked into the worldwide network that monitors for beacons, and an activation should wake up someone in your home country who should check the MMSI details and even make a couple of phone calls to ascertain if it is a false alarm, while at the same time working with the local SAR to go out and find you..... If it does work out here though, I am not sure yet. What I will guess is probably 90% of dive centres out here, are probably as clueless about this as well....


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