(5/01/05) Diver missing in Florida

[MoonWrasse]

Are there any reports of him bolting to the surface? Is it possible he ran out of air at depth, had a gear malfunction, etc, and bolted to the surface causing an embolism?

Except that if he was hold onto a buoy line, that would suggest he was walking his way up the line. It would seem pure luck to find yourself near a buoy after bolting to the surface. Also his reg could have freeflowed after he lost consciousness, draining the tank.

For myself, it's not so much of an issue what happened exactly in the unfortunate diver's case, but how would you or I respond in such a situation, and how can one be better prepared. Training is one thing, and very important, but not 100% of the answer.

 

[Scubaguy62]

I'm really sorry about this accident, and about a fellow diver losing his life. Thanks Vickie for posting it.

I've done the SG 8 times since it was sank, and the last time I had an episode of near panic due to a flooding mask. What saved my ***** was something I learned early in my pilot training...(mempilot, feel free to agree).. during spatial disorientation training, the pilot experiences vertigo...sometimes severe vertigo, and the lesson is always the same "Fly the darn thing, believe what you see (your instruments), not what you feel." That saved my life many times when I was a corporate pilot as well...so naturally, what was the first thing I remembered while at the SG? get a hold of myself, and chill. I was diving 33% and the plan was not to exceed 100 fsw. I was at 80 fsw when I had my "close call."

I think if we trained divers to handle emergencies the way I was trained during flight training and the way I trained my flight students, there would be less cases like this, simply because if only one thing is learned it would be to keep cool while under stress, which is why I'm still alive today. We don't know when something is going to go wrong, but I think we've all met Mr. Murphy; so it pays to be ready at all times.



Anyway, the SG is definitely an advanced dive, and not one to

 

[gpatton]

[

gpatton asked;
Can Nitrox lead to this Hypocapnia, which might bring on a situation of the diver Hyperventiling?

Answer...No! Do a little more research please! The dangers with hypocapnia caused by hyperventilation is directly associated with free diving, not open circuit scuba, and is called shallow water blackout.
*
Where are you getting this information? I think you have made some leaps of logic here.
*
The results hyperventilation while using open circuit scuba, would be a high consumption rate of gas, and associated temporary physical symptoms. Nitrox does not cause a diver to hyperventilate, not does it exacerbate it. You are unfortunately making a very big leap of logic with limited knowledge of only a few facts. There have been numerous studies of the effects of enriched air on divers, none of what you have said is even on the radar as a consideration. The diver who died surfaced for a period of time and is said to have responded verbally to the dive boat crew, so shallow water blackout can be ruled out, as would an embolism. He had an empty tank, an empty BCD and all his weights on when found. Those are the only facts we know so far. We will never know his state of mind, or why certain decisions were made or actions taken or not taken by the diver that lead to his death. We can only gather the facts, such as they are, and reinforce a basic open water lesson to drop your weights if in trouble. This is as far as we can go in assessing possible courses of action that may have changed the outcome. The gas he was using had no bearing at all.

In regards to PT40's post, the first Answer...No!

In my opinion the answer should be a "Maybe"! Especially, since the results of accident investigation will not give definitive results and no one will ever know exactly the sequence of events or the trigger that caused the events lead to disaster.

In all due respect, the fact is that dive physiology is not an exact science and different creditable sources on this subject disagree with your opinion. I think, everyone should keep an open mind about the possibilities of accident causation. When possible causes are not "even on the radar as a consideration" accidents will continue to happen....

IMHO Hyperventilation regardless of its cause is a definite threat to a divers' safety...
FYI - read about hyperventilation >>> http://www.scuba-doc.com/hypvnt.htm

Glenn

 

[pt40fathoms]

FYI - read about hyperventilation >>> http://www.scuba-doc.com/hypvnt.htm

Glenn

Thanks for the link, I'm always up for a little lite reading.

 

[GrierHPharmD]

There are some brief discussions of the dangers of hyperventilation in Bennett and Elliot's and also in Bove's diving medicine texts. I think there's also a monograph on the DAN website.

An important issue, as shallow water blackout is frequently fatal.

I'm intriqued by the email from the dive operator and eagerly await a more definitive analysis of the case when the facts are all in.

I don't think that this thread is as much about spreading rumors as about trying to understand what happened to a diver on a dive that many of us do. It's funny when you see folks that aren't used to the types of discussions that we have on SB - they often take things the wrong way and get a little defensive. I've just had a similar instance with a local diver flaming my LDS here - it was the shop manager's first experience with SB, and he was pretty angry when he read the thread. I hope the operator involved in this case understands that nobody's bashing him or the way the crew responded, but that we're all very interested in the cause of this accident and are discussing it in a manner that I hope is respectful to all parties concerned.

-Grier

 

[John Stuart]

I am one of the owners of It’s A Dive and the person that requested Vicki to edit her initial post to this thread. Several of you have stated that I was out of line and overly sensitive. How do you think my captain felt when he read the posting? Even some of this forum’s members stated they would think twice before diving with It’s A Dive based on the post.

I asked Vicki to edit her post based on my belief that if someone says or writes something they later find out not to be factual, they have a moral and ethical obligation to set the record straight. Vicki did this knowing that several of you may give her some grief. I commend her for that.

This forum does a great service to divers by discussing this tragedy. It helps us all to understand how to prevent future tragedies. Perpetuating false rumors does nothing to help the cause. Editing one’s post to eliminate false rumors does not harm the sanctity of the forum.

As soon as the USCG and the Monroe County Sheriff’s Office have completed their investigation, It’s A Dive will be able to issue a statement. We may never know what ultimately caused this tragedy but I will be able to share the facts as we know them based on the eyewitness accounts of the captain and the other divers on the trip.

What I can say is the brief accounts in the local newspapers, many shared within this forum, are fairly accurate based on what we know at this time.

John Stuart
john@itsadive.com

 

[mempilot]

John,

Thanks for coming on this forum and making a preliminary statement to the membership. As a frequent diver in your area, I understand the challenges that not only the divers face, but the boat crews as well. I've been on many challenging dives across SE FL and the Keys, and many of those dives were saved from incident or accident by sharp captains and DM's. However, as we should all know, accidents happen and while it may initially ease the pain to point fingers and place blame for some, the pain will never go away until an accurate account of what took place is disclosed. I hope that the speculation will remain objective and focus on the factors surrounding the diver in the water and not lead to a witch hunt. Only then, can we learn from this accident and modify our practices accordingly, if needed.

When faced with a potentially fatal incident, most people would freeze. However, the crews on the boats in your area are all well trained, and are well equipped to deal with these challenges since they deal with unique situations on an every day basis. Sometimes things just don't go the way they should, and under those circumstances, one can feel helpless in trying to save a life.

I commend you for coming on here and making a statement. I will be the first to say that I will use your operation again in the future.

Eric Stadtmueller

 

[jagercola]

I'm heading to the Key Largo area next week to go diving with Bud n' Mary's Marina. I'm an AOW w/ just over 30 dives under my belt and am going to take a Nitrox course while there. I think the nitrox dive will be on the Eagle. Are the Eagle and SG very similar in currents? I think the SG is just a little deeper. Regardless, this accident has shaken me up. Anyone figure out how many people dive key largo every month or year and figure out how many accidents per x number of dives?

My best friend's dad just got back from Mt. Everest and one guy in his group died, a Canadian, then another American died. I read in an earlier post that three people have died in the Keys this year. That freaks me out when more people die in the keys diving than climbing Everest this year.

If I have to emergency assent in fast current or bad seas. I'm pulling out my saftey sausage and grabbing any bouy I can.

-Will

 

[H2Andy]

jager, off the top of my head, there's been 3 this year

last year there were 6 or 7

a *tiny* percentage compared to all the dives done every day down there

still... you're exactly right in re-assessing your dives in light of this accident.

i think for me, the lessons so far from this accident are:

1. manage your air

2. make yourself positively bouyant as soon as you reach the surface.
this means drop weights and inflate your BC manually if necessary.
do not continue to kick to stay at the surface; this will tire you out
and is unnecessary -- you have a nice big bladder around you. USE IT.

3. if faced with a current, stay with the bouy

4. if can't stay with the bouy, go with the current, not against it; you'll only
tire yourself out

this is something people don't seem to grasp until it happens to them:

YOU CAN NOT FIGHT A CURRENT for any length of time. the current will win.

 

[DiveGolfSki]

John,

I echo mempilot's comments and hope you don't include me as a "members stated they would think twice before diving with It’s A Dive based on the post". I always give someone the benefit of the doubt.

Now, if you'll kindly send me a ticket, I'd love to dive with you guys.