(3/21/05) Cruise ship damages reef and almost runs down dive party

[Flamebug818]

Here are the pics I took of the Carnival's Inspiration before the reef incident. I hope I do this right.

impressive pics

 

[markd_nscr986]

Are Cruise ships and diving just incompatible?

No, not really........as long as the cruise ship is sitting nicely underwater

Mark

 

[zydecocruiser]

I had to post up in that thread. I've been a long time member of Cruise Critic and a short time in scuba (not even certified till next week). But zydecocruiser is crazy

Crazy? Not really.

So what was the outcome of the investigation or is it still just wild speculation going on over here? Oh, never mind.

Cozumel was hardly invaded by cruise ships. They are in bed with them.

As for a dive cruise, how about this one?
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=245

 

[lord1234]

I hope to see them fined multi-millions if there was any reef damage, and I hope that the mexican government has the gumption to put the money back into the water ecosystem though I sadly doubt it.

 

[SED]

"Cozumel was hardly invaded by cruise ships. They are in bed with them."

Still no excuse for cruise ships wallowing around uncontrolled, violating protected space and endangering both divers' lives and the reef system.

As an unofficial cheerleader for the cruise ship industry, you most likely have better access to the results of any investigations. Perhaps you can use your considerable knowledge to find and share the results.

 

[zydecocruiser]

"Cozumel was hardly invaded by cruise ships. They are in bed with them."

Still no excuse for cruise ships wallowing around uncontrolled, violating protected space and endangering both divers' lives and the reef system.

As an unofficial cheerleader for the cruise ship industry, you most likely have better access to the results of any investigations. Perhaps you can use your considerable knowledge to find and share the results.

I make no excuse for the ship being out of bounds. It was where it was. I am more interested in finding out how it came to be where it was and to prevent in the future. Sinking the ship is not an option.

I questioned the wisdom of the dive master for starting and/or not aborting the dive, especially if the boats had been recalled as was reported.

Should the divers have been out that day and at that time? Not so much should they have been at the location where they were. But because they were at that location, there was additional, inherent risk. Do you not agree?

I came here to perhaps find truth, but alas, I find it lacking.

No need to get your panties in a twist, I am no cheerleader, no competition for you.

 

[SED]

Zydecocruiser, it's quite clear where your sympathies lie, as evidenced in the Cruise Critic thread http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=3460191#post3460191 that covers other aspects of the incident as well.

Readers here will gain a better idea of your position re: cruise ships vs. divers by reading the whole story.

It's unfortunate you define the issue as one of competition.

 

[Otter]

...Perhaps you can use your considerable knowledge to find and share the results.

...
No need to get your panties in a twist, I am no cheerleader, no competition for you.

Please focus on the issues, not on each other....

 

[zydecocruiser]

Please focus on the issues, not on each other....

I'm ok with that. I do find it worthwhile mentioning that SED has 3 posts and each one is an attack on me. Hopefully the admins will check out the IP address and find out what cretin is hiding behind that id. Obviously someone trying to stir up trouble.

So was the dive boat recalled? Does anyone know?

Was the Carnival ship under command of a Carnival officer or a Cozumel pilot? Operating inside a port, I would think it might be the latter. Ships don't casually move around in a port without authorization.

I do find it interesting that one could not see their hands in front of their faces but could see a cruise ship that was farther away.

I think any damage to the reef was quickly cleaned up, and obviously Carnival should be accountable for any damage they caused, but am not certain they are 100% to blame for the close encounter with the divers. What is wrong with questioning that?

 

[Maladryne]

Was the Carnival ship under command of a Carnival officer or a Cozumel pilot?

What difference does that make? Both the pilot and the Carnival crew are required to obey maritime law.

I do find it interesting that one could not see their hands in front of their faces but could see a cruise ship that was farther away.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. The divers were on the reef, ostensibly enjoying the typically good visibility found in those waters. According to the article, "the force of the propellers raised sediment so that it was impossible to see the palm of your hand". Please correct me if I'm wrong, but generally speaking you will find that the ship preceeds the propellers, so it seems logical that the divers would see the very large ship that was reportedly within 60" of them, and would then be enveloped by the cloud of sediment as the ship passed by. Are you trying to say that the divers were mistaken, and that the ship was in fact some indeterminate distance away?

I think any damage to the reef was quickly cleaned up

Oh? Based on what? How exactly does one "clean up" the type of damage one would suppose was caused by a ship? It's not like they backed in to someone's minivan at Wal-Mart; reefs are extremely fragile ecosystems. How do they unkill the corals that the sediments buried? I understand that the ship did not, in fact, run aground; however, large volumes of sand & sediments burying corals are every bit as bad as pulverization. I've seen first hand what cruise ships do to a reef; have you? If so, where? I've also seen & have photos of cruise ships dumping garbage and even sewage overboard from one side of the ship, while offloading tour groups on the other (an offence for which the cruise line was required to issue an apology and pay a fine).

and obviously Carnival should be accountable for any damage they caused, but am not certain they are 100% to blame for the close encounter with the divers.

A close encounter with the divers is a completely separate issue from that of navigating in a marine park & damagine or not damaging a protected reef. Approaches to divers are governed by maritime law; if the divers were down without any kind of warning to seagoing vessels that they were in the water (that means a dive flag), you'd be right. Even in a marine park, divers are expected to fly one of two flags (or both) in order to mark their location. I've not seen specific mention made with respect to whether or not the dive operation put divers in the water and failed to fly a dive flag; IF they were flying a dive flag, maritime law is quite clear on the responsibilities of vessels in the area. Your posts have indicated that the divers should share some repsonsibilty for the incident, apparently based on the fact that the weather was inclement and they had no business being there. However, maritime law doesn't say "masters, keep your vessels clear of a dive flag unless you don't think the divers should be where they are".

What is wrong with questioning that?

Nothing. You have every right in the world to question what happened, and I wouldn't personally dream of denying you that right. However, if you feel that the divers on the reef are in some way to blame for nearly being run down by the ship, you might not like the answers.

By the way, welcome to the board. Are you a diver?