2 more UK fatalities last weekend

[String]

Thats purely a matter of personal opinion. There are a number of incidents with a diver getting into trouble and taking their buddy with them. I can think of at least 3 incidents this year i know of where one buddys problem has killed a pair.

Provided the proper redundant kit and training along with planning theres no reason not to do it. For what its worth not one of the incidents this year has been listed as curable if there was a buddy present.

The only coroners notes this year about safety have been relating to people not ditching weights.

 

[Spectre]

Thats purely a matter of personal opinion. There are a number of incidents with a diver getting into trouble and taking their buddy with them. I can think of at least 3 incidents this year i know of where one buddys problem has killed a pair.

That's pretty bold. I know of 4 double fatalities this year. You want to explain how the buddy got the other killed?

For what its worth not one of the incidents this year has been listed as curable if there was a buddy present.

What about the guy that was found entangled on the Iberia? Can you say that a buddy couldn't have cut him out of that?

And that's just one example. There are a ton that are just "separated and found on [bottom|surface] dead". Dead folks don't talk... likewise "drownings" don't really state much information to know if a buddy could have helped or not.

The only coroners notes this year about safety have been relating to people not ditching weights.

Oh yea. The guy that had a runaway ascent, dumped too much gas, and ended up dead because he didn't dump his weights? That makes sense....

 

[String]

Lots of selective editing, none of it relevent.

Firstly as the titele of this thread is clearly stating its "UK" fatalities and last time i checked they hadnt moved Iberia to the UK.

One recent example of a double fatality here was NDC chepstow around about Easter where one diver got in trouble, grabbed the buddy, both ended up in a rapid ascent suffering from ruptured lung and then sank back to the 80m bottom.

Oh yea. The guy that had a runaway ascent, dumped too much gas, and ended up dead because he didn't dump his weights? That makes sense....

Once again selectively piecing bits of text together. The coroner was referring to the 5 fatalities so far this year of a diver on the surface getting into difficulty and then sinking back under. For the record i know 4 of those were buddy pairs and possibly the 5th as well.

It has nothing to do with the 60m rapid ascent of which no more concrete details are known at all.

 

[Spectre]

The coroner was referring to the 5 fatalities so far this year of a diver on the surface getting into difficulty and then sinking back under. For the record i know 4 of those were buddy pairs and possibly the 5th as well.

We are either speaking of different reports, or the report I read seriously destroyed the coroner report:

http://www.divernet.com/news/stories/buoyancy160704.shtml

The actual quote states "Why are divers reluctant to dump their weight belts to allow them to surface when they get into difficulties?". That tells me that they are referring to dumping your belt at depth. Yes, dumping on the surface is an understood practice, and the number of cases of people surfacing and then descending and drowning -is- a problem. However the case that seemed to be referenced in the report was -not- the situation of them being on the surface.

I find it interesting that people tend to be strong supporters of redundancy until such time that buddies come up. The reaction for having a bad buddy these days seems to be to dump the buddy, rather than get a better buddy...

 

[Phish-phood]

String, if the NDC incident is the one involving the couple who were found after 3/4 days then you have gotten that story completely wrong I'm afraid.

If not then I am at a loss to know which incident you are referring to as there was only one incident at NDC involving a double fatality.

All incidents that I know of that have occured at the NDC have occurred primarily because of arrogance, irresponsibility or mere over sight on the part of the diver.

 

[suika]

I’ve been reading this thread for a while and it seems to be getting very confused between various incidents.
Anytime there is an incident and especially a fatality it is human nature to want to know what happened. This is usually so that we can reassure ourselves (and/or our loved ones) that it wouldn’t happen to us. We all try to find reasons and often we forget that we are human and make mistakes. Sometimes small ones, sometimes not so small .
There has been a lot of talk here regarding fitness to dive and training for local conditions. In the case of the guy on the 60m wreck dive (who was a good friend of mine) he was both extremely strong and fit, fully dived up and regularly dived deep in Irish waters. I was on the same dive as he, though I was not his buddy, the diving conditions were great and we all had a fantastic dive. I cannot say what mixes exactly he was carrying but they were not dissimilar to mine 18/35, 33, 60.
Something went wrong on the ascent and we may never know exactly what. Naturally there is an official investigation but we may have to wait upwards of a year for the results of that.
His buddy was with him all the time and did absolutely everything for him including omitting over a half an hour of stops in order to try and revive him.
Last week we buried a good friend and this week we are all trying to restart our lives following a horrible tragedy. Please bear this in mind when posting. Some people are very flippant and forget that they are talking to real people about real events. For those of you who think you wouldn’t have a rapid ascent because you know your dumps etc, bear in mind that you cant do much if you’re unconscious

 

[d33ps1x]

Suika I am sorry you had to lose a friend and I do understand your concerns regarding people being flippant regarding the death of fellow divers.

I can assure I am not and I still truly believe that a large majority of diving accidents could be resolved through the general concept of better buddy skills and non-solo diving. I would like nothing more than to see the number of fatalities and accidents decrease sharply with each passing year.

Spectre is right though. You more often than not hear things like, "After a couple of minutes so and so noticed their buddy missing and surfaced figuring their buddy had also only to find out..." Then buddy found on bottom.

That is the definition of bad buddy skills. If this happens often to anyone reading this then you are not up to snuff in this catagory and that really is the end of the story. I would not dive with a diver who more than once who showed obliviousness towards my location and status.

Losing your buddy for longer than 30 seconds is bad buddy skills where I come from. Simple as that.

I still maintain that the large majority of diving deaths could be resolved through canning diving solo and vastly improving buddy skills.

 

[String]

Personal opinion again. A lot of people doing very deep technical diving would strongly disagree with your view.

 

[d33ps1x]

Personal opinion again. A lot of people doing very deep technical diving would strongly disagree with your view.

I think we have solidly established that this is my personal opinion. Thank you for clarifying that twice now.

Since you feel so strongly about this issue can you please clarify a few things for me.

1/ What is your definition of very deep technical diving and why buddy diving is a poor solution in this regard.
2/ Who these many people are that would disagree strongly.
3/ Why you are such a staunch advocate of solo diving. I'm very interested in your personal opinion and reasoning as to why it is a safe and acceptable form of diving that offers similar or superior safety margins to buddy diving.
4/ What "very deep technical diving" has to do with reducing the number of recreational diving deaths yearly.

Thanks.

 

[R_Deluca]

Personal opinion again. A lot of people doing very deep technical diving would strongly disagree with your view.

A lot of people doing very deep technical diving would strongly agree with d33ps1x, but then that is just my personal opinion!