2 more UK fatalities last weekend

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Perhaps BSAC (an organization I highly respect) should ask Dive Facilities within the UK to check on experience levels of divers they aren't familar with prior to renting or filling equipment. Just a thought, but it may preclude 'tropical divers' from attempting the more challenging UK environment prior to adiquate preparation.
Simple thoughts from a simple mind

Well, dive charters etc are supposed to check qualifications and experience etc. The problem is a lot of the divers are either private clubs or groups or just friends diving and therefore outside that control blanket and pretty much do what they want.

The above system wont stop 2 tropically trained divers deciding to go for a shore dive on their own one day (real incident with fatal consequences).

 

[DORSETBOY]

Well, dive charters etc are supposed to check qualifications and experience etc. The problem is a lot of the divers are either private clubs or groups or just friends diving and therefore outside that control blanket and pretty much do what they want.

The above system wont stop 2 tropically trained divers deciding to go for a shore dive on their own one day (real incident with fatal consequences).

Do we realy want more regualtion? I would never dive with a dive club, hate the politics that you get in them whether they're bsac, ssac, saa, padi whatever. I dive with friends on an informal basis (as do most uk divers which is why bsac is nearly bankrupt lol), we do what we want where we want but adhere to sensible diving practices and local regulations, ie. limits in certain sea lochs used for millitary purposes on scotland's west coast. i had the benefit of training in uk waters but for a year dived overseas in the tropics, the only way for me to get used to uk diving again was to build up my experience again in uk waters, diving in progresively deeper, 'harder' conditons.

 

[flw]

Well, dive charters etc are supposed to check qualifications and experience etc. The problem is a lot of the divers are either private clubs or groups or just friends diving and therefore outside that control blanket and pretty much do what they want.
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The line taken by most charter boats is that if you book on a boat, then it's up to you to ensure you are capable of doing whatever is planned. I've never had any of my log books/cards checked on any boat I've used, the skipper's view is that if they check you, then they have mroe responsibility for you, whereas if they don't then you are responsible for yourself - personally I think that's the most sensible approach - the skipper can in no way be held responsible for any of my actions once I've jumped off.
That said, in Scotland at least, there aren't that many 'open' charters anyway, and you'll tend to either dive with a commercial shop organisation and be dive mastered of be invited onto a boat, it's very rare these days I don't know 90% of the divers on board even if I did book withut asking - but there aren't many boats to choose from in Scotland anyway -

 

[ScubaBaby]

A friend of my otherhalf, who runs a dive boat along the south coast of England has said that this is his worst year of trade because we don't appear to be having any sort of summer. The weather conditions are awful for diving along the south, so I'd imagine some people aren't prepared for it and get caught off-guard.

 

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Do we realy want more regualtion?

Personally i feel no we dont. Im a big believer in the "look after yourself" idea. Take responsibility for your own actions and dont look to blame someone when you ---k up personally.

I would never dive with a dive club, hate the politics that you get in them whether they're bsac, ssac, saa, padi whatever.

Thats true, we do have politics but its not so bad that it cant be ignored so lucky i guess. Most of the diving is with a group of 3 or 4 core individuals so rather than club based the diving is more like a group of friends that just happen to have access to the club boat. Due to that its bearable here. Its also a hell of a lot cheaper than a charter


Agree with the last bit as well, its mostly about diving realising their own limitations and training/building up until they are competent. Nobody can force this on them youd just have to hope they have the common sense to do it. Sadly with some of the incidents it doesnt seem all do....

The line taken by most charter boats is that if you book on a boat, then it's up to you to ensure you are capable of doing whatever is planned. I've never had any of my log books/cards checked on any boat I've used

I very rarely end up on charters so cant really comment. Ive used a grand total of 2 companies. The one i have never been asked for QRBs/logs but thats because i know the people involved personally. The other one i was asked for a qualification record and log book. My very limted charter experience though isnt really a good indicator of that!

Again its stupid to blame the skipper as like you said, once you're in the water, you're on your own. It goes back to me above reply about taking responsibility etc. The skippers job is to keep you safe on the boat getting to/from the site. The actual diving part is nothing to do with him.

A friend of my otherhalf, who runs a dive boat along the south coast of England has said that this is his worst year of trade because we don't appear to be having any sort of summer. The weather conditions are awful for diving along the south, so I'd imagine some people aren't prepared for it and get caught off-guard.

Oddly enough the weather forecast today was stating the summer so far is exactly average regarding sunshine, rainfall, temperatures etc. Last year was far better than average but we cant expect it to be like that all the time.

Even on "good" days you can have 4-5ft swells, the water is still cold, visibility can still be low, the tides still flow so you still have currents and those can catch people unprepared off guard even without poor weather.




Side note to this: This years incidents so far are not by any means all caused by inexperienced warm water divers. A few incidents are however the majority appear to be well trained and in some cases very experienced and competent divers.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Darwin candidates aside, I believe we are seeing a trend worldwide that will result in rising death rates in Scuba for several years to come. When I started diving in the 60's, Scuba was a young man's sport. The average diver was a young firebreather... today the average age of Scuba divers is somewhere between 35 and 45, and is continuing to rise. As the Scuba population ages we will see more fatalities from heart attacks and strokes, just as there are more fatalities from heart attacks and strokes in the general population at the same ages.
Rick

 

[Rick Inman]

...today the average age of Scuba divers is somewhere between 35 and 45, and is continuing to rise. As the Scuba population ages we will see more fatalities from heart attacks and strokes...

Whew! Looks like I'm still in the average for a few more days (46 at the end of the month).
I also see a lot of older divers that are out of shape. The certifying agencies don't seem to put too much emphasis into health and fitness, which is a must if you are going to continue to dive when you get old like Rick - ah, I mean, like ME.
You can't ride a desk all week, not exercise and then expect to be healthy/safe in the water. Diet, exercise and regular checkups become a must do. And I believe that as we get older, we must dive more often as well, and replace what we lose in youthful endurance with experience (at least, that's what I tell my wife! ).

 

[ScubaFreak]

Hey,

Unfortunatley I knew the guy from Dublin, the one who died on the Santa Maria. Real nice guy, really experienced too.
All we can try and do is learn from the accidents and keep diving as safe as possible for everyone that we buddy with and teach.

Scuba_freak

 

[Spectre]

Hey,

Unfortunatley I knew the guy from Dublin, the one who died on the Santa Maria. Real nice guy, really experienced too.
All we can try and do is learn from the accidents and keep diving as safe as possible for everyone that we buddy with and teach.

Scuba_freak

Do you have any more details on what happened to him? All I've been able to find is the reports stating "ascended too fast".

 

[Jai Bar]

Do we realy want more regualtion? I would never dive with a dive club, hate the politics that you get in them whether they're bsac, ssac, saa, padi whatever. I dive with friends on an informal basis (as do most uk divers which is why bsac is nearly bankrupt lol), we do what we want where we want but adhere to sensible diving practices and local regulations, ie. limits in certain sea lochs used for millitary purposes on scotland's west coast. i had the benefit of training in uk waters but for a year dived overseas in the tropics, the only way for me to get used to uk diving again was to build up my experience again in uk waters, diving in progresively deeper, 'harder' conditons.

Living in a country that has diving regulations (by law), I think it is a disastrous thing. When S*h*i*t happens- and it tends to happen from time to time- a diver needs to rely on his training and experience to get out safely. Regulations won't help, they only tend to numb the problem and people rely too much on the regulations instead of *personal responsibility*.
Then, after another accident, it becomes clear that the regulations were not enough- so they add more regulations, until the next time...