Is it possible to travel responsibly (during a pandemic)?

[Miyaru]

Are we past the worst?

another graph Coronavirus Graphs: Worldwide Cases and Deaths - Worldometer look at the 7 day average of new cases. Globally we are down maybe 50% since the worst, and still worse than the first wave.

Consider that only a few 10s of million of people have been vaccinated and there is an enormous reserve of people yet to get this disease.

Once vaccinated people take more risks. In Israel they see a spike in infection just after vaccination, previous vaccination programs have demonstrated a similar tendency to take the disease less seriously.

These two things make for perfect conditions to breed something that the vaccines are ineffective for. Luckily they people making the vaccines can knock them up quickly, but getting them deployed to billions of people is still a huge deal.

Do vaccinated people take more risk?
Here, the government tells us that after vaccination,
-you can still get ill (probably less severe)
-you can still spread the virus
-you still have to wear a mask
-you still have to adhere to all restrictions

Basically, nothing changes, except that the vaccine might boost your immune system for a few months.

 

[formernuke]

Do vaccinated people take more risk?
Here, the government tells us that after vaccination,
-you can still get ill (probably less severe)
-you can still spread the virus
-you still have to wear a mask
-you still have to adhere to all restrictions

Basically, nothing changes, except that the vaccine might boost your immune system for a few months.

They do we have seen post in this thread of people saying they do because they have been vaccinated.

 

[Dan]

Is it possible to travel responsibly (during a pandemic)?

I probably posted this somewhere above and elsewhere but wanted to again provide my own experience. I went and recounted each airline flight that I took in all of 2020. I had 35 US domestic flights to and from various mid-west locales for work and 2 flights internationally to and from Cancun (Playa del Carmen) for fun/scuba, including all of airports, rental cars, hotels, restaurants, etc. for all of those trips. Many of you know that lately flights have been very full and some airports are getting very crowded.

I have 7 flights so far this year, including 2 internationally. Passport control at both Cancun and Newark in February 2021 when we flew were packed with travelers, several thousand crammed in at Cancun with at least 5 planes all landed around the same time. It certainly was not the ideal situation with a pandemic.

I wore a mask whenever I was not well away from other people. Others did inside of the airports and planes; outside of the airport not too much except in Mexico where locals mostly did and tourists mostly did not.

Based on my Covid-19 free body to-date given the above travel history, my recent second dose of the Moderna vaccine, my wife receiving the second dose, my family's current health status, my risk tolerance, and the current CDC requirement for all air travelers returning to the US to test negative prior to return, my family and I will be traveling at-will within the then-current CDC requirements.

You are my hero

Be ready for the SB hound dogs barking at you. I’ve been called irresponsible idiot & delusional for the 3 air travels I did in last December, January and February.

 

[KenGordon]

Initial Israeli data: First Pfizer shot curbs infections by 50% after 14 days

Studies of hundreds of thousands of Israeli vaccinees provide real-world info on efficacy; but health official also warns 17% of current serious cases had already gotten 1st shot

I was quoting a professor off the radio yesterday regarding the bump in numbers due to taking more risk. I know there is stuff I would not today that I will having been vaccinated for a few weeks.

 

[KDAD]

@Dan , did I travel safely? Yes. Responsibly? That can certainly be argued although the 35 flights for work for for government-mandated essential services therefore I didn't have much choice in the matter. Only the 2 pleasure flights were non-essential travel.

I always have to think twice before pressing that Post Reply button.

Oh, do I still wear a mask? Yes, whenever I can when nearby anyone. My thoughts are that even though one may be vaccinated careful protocols should still be followed.

 

[hilljo88]

Initial Israeli data: First Pfizer shot curbs infections by 50% after 14 days

Studies of hundreds of thousands of Israeli vaccinees provide real-world info on efficacy; but health official also warns 17% of current serious cases had already gotten 1st shot

I was quoting a professor off the radio yesterday regarding the bump in numbers due to taking more risk. I know there is stuff I would not today that I will having been vaccinated for a few weeks.

This headline implies that the vaccine has a low efficacy, but note that the 17% referenced is not the percentage of those vaccinated, but the percentage of the serious cases (almost 1,000 total serious cases). The article states that the number of serious cases which had the first jab was only 180. The total getting vaccinated was about 2 million at that time. So the percentage of those getting at least one shot who developed serious cases in this time frame is less than 0.01%. And based on the phase 3 trial, resistance increases through 1 week after the 2nd shot. All of this is only data points, but empirical results continue to indicate an incredibly effective vaccine.

 

[KenGordon]

This headline implies that the vaccine has a low efficacy, but note that the 17% referenced is not the percentage of those vaccinated, but the percentage of the serious cases (almost 1,000 total serious cases). The article states that the number of serious cases which had the first jab was only 180. The total getting vaccinated was about 2 million at that time. So the percentage of those getting at least one shot who developed serious cases in this time frame is less than 0.01%. And based on the phase 3 trial, resistance increases through 1 week after the 2nd shot. All of this is only data points, but empirical results continue to indicate an incredibly effective vaccine.

The implication is that people are taking risks before the vaccine gets a chance to become effective. Only a small proportion of those risks will turn into actual infections. If people behaved better you would not expect so many positive post vaccination.

 

[uncfnp]

The implication is that people are taking risks before the vaccine gets a chance to become effective. Only a small proportion of those risks will turn into actual infections. If people behaved better you would not expect so many positive post vaccination.

Hey Ken. It might be the implication but from the vague statistics quoted I just don’t see it although I certainly can’t argue this isn’t happening.

Interestingly, the incubation period for covid is 2 weeks so I wonder how many of those infections occurred just before or immediately after vaccination.

 

[KenGordon]

Hey Ken. It might be the implication but from the vague statistics quoted I just don’t see it although I certainly can’t argue this isn’t happening.

Interestingly, the incubation period for covid is 2 weeks so I wonder how many of those infections occurred just before or immediately after vaccination.

I am just repeating the assertions of the professor they rolled out of the Today program on Friday. I am not certain this is the exact source she had. The point is people who get vaccinated are vulnerable for a while and this blip of infection plus earlier vaccination programs research indicates that people increase the risks they take.like they drive faster with seatbelts etc etc.

 

[Blackcrusader]

They were probably living in crowded place and didn't have the right attitude, discipline and understanding how the virus can spread.

How would you one know. Some people who got sick were found to be on flights where other people had the virus and were flying in before PCR testing was mandatory. One woman on a flight to Taiwan was already sick and lied about it and was fined. Many people who have been knowingly sick traveled and this is why the pandemic spread as it did.