Fatality on Rosalie Moller wreck

[ginti]

It seems that some people think about taking a hit as an automatic and do things (like this) because they feel that way. I will take air source and a close buddy over most anything else.

Another experience of me; specifically, about my recreational training.

When I started training to obtain a tech-pass, I realized that most of my beliefs about diving were totally wrong and my way of thinking absolutely too conservative. This is because during my recreational courses instructors were way to conservatives. They were discussing a lot of things about decompression sickness and other stuff, and the result was that we students thought that decompression sickness was so bad we need to avoid it at every cost. This is ridiculous, I guess everyone here would prefer to skip a couple of minutes of deco or even more if there are serious hazards; and this tragedy might be an example (although we will never know what was inside her mind).

So guys, for you recreational instructors, do not overkill students with decompression sickness and similar stuff; it must be taught obviously, but it must be stated how really dangerous is, especially in comparison to other potential (more) dangerous hazards. The choice between getting bent*** and death is obvious, but if the real danger of hazards is not clear, one can end up in making the wrong choice...

***even when bends are likely, which doesn't seem to be the case here

 

[Edward3c]

Im a fairly big buy and even i dont carry anywhere near that amount of weight, it seems way excessive.

diving a 5mm i take 2KG's, dry suit around 5.

Physical size isn’t an indicator of body density. My first wife was very light boned and used nearly twice the lead I need. In tropical waters she would regularly have 10kg.

I was with a buddy who lost 5kg at 20m. The give away way was him holding onto wreckage. I had a quick look around but couldn’t find the weight pouch. My solution was the use my DSMB line, I attached it to a solid bit of wreckage (instructing my buddy to get a good hold of me) I slowly wound us up to the surface. The weight pouch was found on a later dive.

 

[KenGordon]

And if we read about them as a scuba mortality, we will be sad. We all get away with a lot of stuff, I have done my share. I'm 66 years old now. I've become just a bit more conservative.

But you don’t actually see them dying much. There’s a continuum of risk, 60 is a bit worse than 50 which is a bit worse than 40 etc etc, but at no point is it certain death. However, not having adequate gas is going to be fatal at any significant depth.

A major risk of reading SB is ending up with a skewed idea about what actually matters. People get obsessed with minor details while there are a number of fundamental things which actually matter, first among those is having something to breath. Gas density, co2 retention, narcosis, o2 toxicity don’t get a mention until genuine advanced training because they are details and irrelevant if you cannot manage your gas.

 

[Lostdiver71]

Really?

I have done more than a dozen dives to 60 meters on air, although that was back in the 90’s, when it was much more common and we didn’t know better! I have also done several hundred dives to between 40 and 50 meters and plan on still diving to a max of 50 meters on air and am well aware of the risks and find them acceptable!

 

[rjack321]

You should all get out more.

Until Simon and Gavin publicised this research gas density was almost completely ignored. Macho divers would pretend not to get narked. So what would be wrong with 60m on air? A minor excess of ppO2?

With what we know today that seems like a bad idea but people who have been successfully diving that way for years, or are young, poor, and immortal, will happily do it, especially in easy conditions like the Red Sea. The real alternative is a rebreather and that is a lot of work.

Maybe in your world. In mine, density, narcosis, and the risks of CO2 accumulation below 30m was heavily emphasized in my tech training in 2004/5. Plus having a buddy who acts as a 2nd brain and helps convince you that diving for a weigh pouch in 55m at the end of the dive on a single 80 is unwise. Plus adequate gas reserves and redundancy.

 

[JackOfDiamonds]

Physical size isn’t an indicator of body density. My first wife was very light boned and used nearly twice the lead I need. In tropical waters she would regularly have 10kg.

I was with a buddy who lost 5kg at 20m. The give away way was him holding onto wreckage. I had a quick look around but couldn’t find the weight pouch. My solution was the use my DSMB line, I attached it to a solid bit of wreckage (instructing my buddy to get a good hold of me) I slowly wound us up to the surface. The weight pouch was found on a later dive.

That is true but muscle and body fat are.

I dont think that the bone density would make such a huge difference that will result in needing to add multiple kg's.

10KG is a lot of weight for tropical water, especially for woman who tend to be smaller than man.

Most likely she is having a hard time emptying her lungs which is what causes her to need more lead to get down.

 

[Edward3c]

That is true but muscle and body fat are.

Most likely she is having a hard time emptying her lungs which is what causes her to need more lead to get down.

She was fit and slim, a BSAC Dive Leader, so not knowing how to breath etc are irrelevant.

 

[JackOfDiamonds]

She was fit and slim, a BSAC Dive Leader, so not knowing how to breath etc are irrelevant.

Well then there must be another reason because bone density would not make such a big impact

 

[hammet]

I'm wondering if the diver had felt some psychological pressure to retrieve the weight out of fear of littering the wreck or the environment rather than or in combination with the fear of being excessively buoyant.

 

[dmaziuk]

That is true but muscle and body fat are.

I dont think that the bone density would make such a huge difference that will result in needing to add multiple kg's.

You'd think so, but not only women have lighter bone structure, they are prone to osteoporosis later in life so the difference becomes even more striking as we get the "diving age".