Troubling incident in San Pedro

[boulderjohn]

I
In the 16 years (numerous trips per year) that I've been diving with them, a boat has never broken down while i was on it. There have been occasions when an engine wasn't working perfectly. While i was last there a few weeks ago, Amigos did have to send out their second big boat to relieve the original out at the Atolls. Divers and gear were transferred over to finish out their day on another lovely super comfy boat.

Dive boats breaking down don't make the news, but it seems to me that I hear about incident with Amigos Del Mar more than almost any other. The first one on the list below was still the talk of the town when I was last there.

Fire Sinks Amigos Del Mar’s Dive Boat: Undercurrent 02/2008

Ambergris Today | Stories | Fatal Dive Tank Explosion at Amigos Del Mar

The San Pedro Sun and Visitor Guide: Boat accident in San Pedro Town

 

[chillyinCanada]

Now look up Ramon's, Ecologic, Aqua dives, etc.

Biggest targets, moving the most people.

 

[Mike]

So what we have learned is that PADI periodically and indiscriminately likes to cut source of revenue just for the fun of it?

What's with the 'targets', you think someone is out to get the dive shops of Belize?

I'm curious when it comes to Belize, if there is any actual incident of any sort at all that you would actually not ludicrously defend? Anything?

In your opinion has there ever been a single dive shop in Belize who has ever made a mistake, ever?

They seem to be in your eyes absolutely infallible, do absolutely everything correct, have never done and never will do anything wrong, and any incident, and situation ever reported, even ones that PADI revokes membership for or issues letters of reprimand for or the state dept issues warning for, are just misunderstanding of the facts, vicious rumors, hearsay, gossip or just out right dishonest 'targeting' of them, and anyone who reports them has an ulterior motive.

How large are these blinders you wear when it comes to Belize? How do you pack them for your trips?

 

[Downing]

If I remember right, at least one of the original posts on TA, now deleted, made reference to the accused having been accused of this once before while in the employ of ADM. Maybe that has something to do with PADI's actions, maybe not. I doubt PADI did any sort of independent investigation. More likely, as was said above, this was a straw that broke the camel's back.

Having both prosecuted and defended a variety of sex cases, including strangers, "dates," adults and unfortunately even children, I can say that sex cases are a different breed of cat in the criminal justice system and are both hard to prosecute and hard to defend. Witnesses, besides those for character and other than the complainant and the accused, are hard to come by. Emotions run high on both sides. The old adage, "Everybody lies about sex" often applies in one way or the other.

I suggest we just let it play out in court, although that may take a while. I work in one of the speediest justice systems in the country, and there's no way a case like this would have a solid trial date a mere two months after it was reported. On the other hand, I have no idea how the Belize justice system works except to say that it has a lousy reputation (surprise!) and is based on the British model, of which I know little except for episodes of Barnum & The Bailey and Rake.

Even then I doubt we'll have what amounts to some sort of closure, but at least we may have more information than we do now.

 

[peterbj7]

I live on San Pedro and have been a dive professional here for years. To stick to the facts, PADI were here for a few days after the incident and (I believe) spoke to all parties involved. At that stage there had been no police action, other than the initial arrest (and release). I believe that PADI had other concerns outside this case, and their seemingly-precipitous action is not so precipitous. The criminal action is against one individual, but their concerns are wider.

---------- Post added July 20th, 2014 at 06:34 PM ----------

Chilly posted "There is some belief that the man and young lady were in a relationship, not known to her family. Her family would not have approved initially and now it is out in the open."

i would love to know where she gets this from. I know the victim, her mother and her sister. Not only is what is insinuated above untrue but I can't think of any possible justification for it, any of it. The victim had never met her attacker before the day of the incident. And she's a big girl - she is not told by her mother who she can and can't see. The only connection was that her employer knew the owner of Amigos - and trusted him and his shop. I believe that relationship has now evaporated.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Thank you Peter. As i said and as you know rumors run rampant. I heard from more than one source that the father hsd been a friend of the accused. For the record, I don't know the accused and have no problem with any actions PADI and/or the law may take against him.

Mike, if i began to talk about a few other dive shops in San Pedro, you'd not hear good things from me. There are various reasons I don't mention nor recommend those few other ops. But my opinion of them needn't be spread far and wide over the internet. I just tell who i will dive with and why. YMMV

It seems a shame to me that this whole matter may cause many dedicated and hard working people to suffer. My hope is that it can be resolved quickly but the court system in Belize does most often grind exceedingly slowly and conviction rates are poor.

---------- Post added July 21st, 2014 at 07:19 AM ----------

With regard to my earlier post about looking up other ops for boat accidents, it was merely my intention to show that Amigos is not the only large op that has had boat troubles.

 

[Mike]

It seems a shame to me that this whole matter may cause many dedicated and hard working people to suffer.

Like I said : 'blinders'.

Apparently there would only be the suffering of the criminal had the shop not already been on PADI's radar for other issues. Let's keep our sympathies for the victim and hope the criminal gets what he deserves. As for others suffering for the shop losing its PADI membership, let's place the blame correctly on them for causing their own problems and not blame this incident for it, had they not violated PADI's standards so many times in the past, this incident would simply have been their first incident instead of their last.

If you follow the link in the 1st post in this thread you'll find 4 of the last 5 reviews of this operation rated as 'terrible', and the reviews are from people with a lot of history on trip advisor not just some one-hit-wonders logging on to trash somebody.

Lastly, I dove Nitrox for the second two dives. I was told these were 35%. I was not given the chance to analyze my tanks, nor were tanks labeled with O2%, MODs or even diver name.

That's a blatant violation of the basic protocols for nitrox and a huge violation and disregard of their customer's safety. Of course the reviewer is probably lying about it.

What a mess

 

[AWMIII]

Part of the confusion that is causing all of the misinformation on the coconut telegraph is caused by the fact that PADI took action against the Instructor and shop. The one who was criminally charged was not the Instructor but was a DM Candidate. As anyone who frequents San Pedro (and notices) knows, the Belize Tour Guide License is more important to act as a DM in San Pedro than an actual DM credential from a diving agency. The source of the statement that the actor was a land based tour guide who was not an employee of Amigos really sounds like an attempt to legally distance the accused from the shop. He was likely a licensed tour guide who was working on his DM credential. Maybe he was not being officially paid since he was in training, maybe he was being paid under the table.

I had heard that "the father" was friendly with the Instructor, but had never met the criminally accused DM candidate. There are a bunch of moving parts and the way that rumors spread in AC, it becomes a game of Whisper Down the Lane.


It is definitely a case of he said she said. The accused has a few challenges to her position. There is a common perception that Gringas go down there to score with Belizeans. Latin men have a stereotype of being very macho (they did even invent the word "macho"). The Belizean court system in known to find very few people guilty especially in cases where a Belizean is being accused by a gringo/gringa. The family that owns ADM is extremely connected and powerful.


Why is it that the local paper publishes an account of a taxi driver who got stiffed for $10 and they do not publish anything regarding a reported sexual assault and subsequent arrest? It is a very small place and everyone knows everyone. The local news is controlled by a few people with their own agenda. Bad news often never makes it out of San Pedro except by word of mouth. More fair and balanced reporting would probably benefit Belize because it would not look as much like things are constantly being covered up. I wonder if he is found guilty, will the Tour Guide Associate revoke his license?

As far as other dive shops in San Pedro, ADM is definitely not the worst in terms of boat breakdowns. It seems one of the boats had a bit of engine trouble lately and a bunch of people reported it on TA.

 

[chillyinCanada]

Thank you AWMIII, much more balanced and insightful.

 

[Mike]

Part of the confusion that is causing all of the misinformation on the coconut telegraph is caused by the fact that PADI took action against the Instructor and shop. The one who was criminally charged was not the Instructor but was a DM Candidate. As anyone who frequents San Pedro (and notices) knows, the Belize Tour Guide License is more important to act as a DM in San Pedro than an actual DM credential from a diving agency. The source of the statement that the actor was a land based tour guide who was not an employee of Amigos really sounds like an attempt to legally distance the accused from the shop. He was likely a licensed tour guide who was working on his DM credential. Maybe he was not being officially paid since he was in training, maybe he was being paid under the table.

I had heard that "the father" was friendly with the Instructor, but had never met the criminally accused DM candidate. There are a bunch of moving parts and the way that rumors spread in AC, it becomes a game of Whisper Down the Lane.


It is definitely a case of he said she said. The accused has a few challenges to her position. There is a common perception that Gringas go down there to score with Belizeans. Latin men have a stereotype of being very macho (they did even invent the word "macho"). The Belizean court system in known to find very few people guilty especially in cases where a Belizean is being accused by a gringo/gringa. The family that owns ADM is extremely connected and powerful.


Why is it that the local paper publishes an account of a taxi driver who got stiffed for $10 and they do not publish anything regarding a reported sexual assault and subsequent arrest? It is a very small place and everyone knows everyone. The local news is controlled by a few people with their own agenda. Bad news often never makes it out of San Pedro except by word of mouth. More fair and balanced reporting would probably benefit Belize because it would not look as much like things are constantly being covered up. I wonder if he is found guilty, will the Tour Guide Associate revoke his license?

As far as other dive shops in San Pedro, ADM is definitely not the worst in terms of boat breakdowns. It seems one of the boats had a bit of engine trouble lately and a bunch of people reported it on TA.

I'm not sure how balanced or insightful it is, not to say you personally aren't balanced and insightful but what you described of the local culture, corruption and media basically applies to every nation south of the United States from Mexico to Argentina. However, the infamous dive safety violations apply to Belize.