No longer about the features

[RebreatherBoy]

One would probably be far better served by wearing a helmet when they drive their car to lessen the far greater chance of receiving a head injury in a car crash then worrying about battery offgassing in one's rebreather....

 

[BigJetDriver]

You (sic) would probably be far better served by wearing a helmet when you drive your car to lessen the far greater chance of receiving a head injury in a car crash then (sic) worrying about battery offgassing in your rebreather....

RBoy,

If by the use of the word "you" instead of the word "one", your intent is to convey a sense of the general public, then in a philosophical way I would have to agree with you.

If you mean me in particular, then perhaps you will not take it amiss if I have to tell you that you should worry about what you want to worry about, and let me make my own decisions about whether or not this is important.

These are MY lungs that these chemicals are being injected into, and my over-all health that is of particular concern to me.

I must point out yet again the salient points: (1) the chemical is a known carcinogen, (2) there are no studies to show what the risk levels are of breathing this chemical under pressure, and (3) "slightly" carcinogenic is like saying "slightly pregnant" or "slightly dead".

You have the right to make your choices, as do I. For all I know, you may be some kind of risk-taking crazy man in your private life-style, or not, as the case may be.

This much is certain. (1) The chemical was enough of a concern for the U.S. Navy to so state in its report. (2) The actual level of risk to the individual is, at this point, UNKNOWN.

You may wish to be cavalier, and discard any risk to your person. Many others, however, would rather see a more sensible resolution to this problem.

 

[MikeR]

You would probably be far better served by wearing a helmet when you drive your car to lessen the far greater chance of receiving a head injury in a car crash then worrying about battery offgassing in your rebreather....

Tobacco, asbestos, thousands of substances were once thought "harmless", but look at them now. I have an average of 10-12 dives weekly, so my concern may be more justified than someone who dives once a month.....bottom line, to each his own....but I'm going to be hammerheading it very soon. To many variables and questions. Does brand A battery produce the same amount of gas as brand B? What efect does extreme depth have on the equasion? What effect does battery load have on offgassing? Are the effects cummulative? In 30 years are we going to find out what a huge mistake this was?..Not me!

The other thing to consider is could someone be hypersensitive to this?

 

[prismdiver]

You would probably be far better served by wearing a helmet when you drive your car to lessen the far greater chance of receiving a head injury in a car crash then worrying about battery offgassing in your rebreather....

I'm bringing a bit of a crosspost over from the deco stop list. But there's a couple of things here that aren't well addressed.

1. The US Navy tests put a single battery in a container measured the offgassing and gave the results. A YBOD has two batteries, so the results need to be doubled.

2. The manufacturer has known about this problem for at least 7 months and has continued to ship the product. Perhaps they don't feel that the battery offgassing Carcinogens into the loop is worth mentioning to the customers / potential sales.

3. It ain't just your lungs that 1,2 DME affects. It is a Teratogen, Carcinogen, and a Mutagen. This won't just bugger up your lungs, It affects your reproductive system.

4. Lithium offgassing contains 1,2 DME, various other Ethers, and Freon 113. I have links below to just the 1,2 DME.

http://sci-toys.com/ingredients/dimethyl_ether.html

I'm not sure but this alludes to it being a Carcinogen.
http://www.evol.nw.ru/~spirov/hazar...hoxyethane.html

This link says it's dangerous to inhale. Possible teratogen.
http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/DI/1%...hoxyethane.html

In case you wonder what a teratogen is:
http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/teratogen.html

5. No one knows the effects of this stuff under pressure. You are forcing this stuff into your tissues by the same method as inert gas loading.

 

[DrMike]

Well we shouldnt have to wait long for verification as a new fuller study is underway using an actual loop with two batteries/temp/humidity etc.

No smoke without fire I guess.

 

[MikeR]

No risk is better than "minimal risk". No matter how minimal the risk may be. ....Really should not even have to be discussed....If its a problem(no matter how small) it should be corrected. Seems to me that this would be easy enough to change.....why not change it, avoid the issue all together.

 

[RebreatherBoy]

Living in any big city is a carcinogen, drinking colas destroys your teeth enamel, going outdoors causes skin cancer, kissing leads to oral herpes, having heterosexual sex means you run HIV risk 3 time greater then being struck by lightning, you are far more likely to be killed in a car accident to and from diving then from diving, putting your head underwater can lead to drowning, peopel slip and kill themsleves in tubs.

So, where is all the suggestions to wear a helmet while driving, to use full respirator filters while breathing, to line the tub with non-skid, to leave all big cities or small ones downwind of them, to stop eating all fast foods, to stop kissing and having sex, and to stop diving, since there is some risk involved?

Seems to be some partisanship here.....

BigJet, when I previously used the term "you" it was rhetorical, not person specific...perhaps "one" would have been a clearer choice of words on my part...I edited the post for clarity sake.....

 

[saturated]

Hey guys....looks like its storming in happyville' Have to agree though the box should be moved. CCRBOY granted everything causes cancer, people pass diseases and accidents happen....all the more reason to not breathe this crap. We all have different approaches to things. Some could give a crap what they eat or drink and worry about the effects later. Most of us old guys approach things a little differently especially when significant $'s are shelled out. Having been a CCR diver for well over 20 years I can tell you that unknowns simply dont fly, most CCR guys I know are pretty anal (including myself) MikeR is the worst though That insures long term survival, guys that are not end up not being. We do everything a specific way everytime, everything lines up or we dont dive. When people we respect and that are smarter than us tell us this could be an issue it gets the brain going....most of us have learned over the years that if someone smarter than you says it may be an issue....generally it will be proven to be down the line. IMHO it would be better to simply change the configuration than to try and convince everyone its not an issue, the latter will never happen. Most of the guys on this thread are inspiration divers, a couple of them are respected inspiration instructors, I am an inspiration diver. All of us are highly defensive of our kits, but this does appear to be an issue that will take longer to prove than to correct. Most students today do their research. So given the threads on this exploding all over the internet...it could and will effect sales. It also puts the instructors in an unfair position. When asked about the effects the battery gas will have long term the only truthful answer is I don't know.

 

[Hootis]

RB, I agree with you on this.
I don't think that having the battery (especially a lithium battery) in the breathing loop is a great design. It disuaded my from buying an Inspiration for quite some time. However, I also don't think it is as big an issue as some people are making of it. There are many fumes that are emitted from many of the plastics we use for many things...including rebreathers. Check out the MSDS and OSHA standards for acetyl...not allowed (by OSHA) in breathing loops...but used by many manufacturers. Check out epoxies...many of them off gas. Check out PVC....nasty stuff when exposed to heat. Are some of these fumes toxic? Certainly. Are some of them carcenogenic? Probably. Will the exposure I get in my loop be an issue for me? Probably not. I would like to see some real world numbers about actual gasses in the loop (including DME), on a real dive. Divers flush the loop during dives. Assuming there was a concentration of gas in the loop at any point, what would that concentration be after a flush?
The point is this...APD will probably not put another battery in the loop....if for nothing more than the sake of marketing. Somebody will probably make a sealed battery compartment as a retrofit. (Maybe even APD) And Inspiration divers that are worried about this potential issue will do something about it...maybe they'll flush the loop more often, or maybe they'll buy a HammerHead, or maybe they'll cancel their dive trips...and doing nothing this weekend.
The rest of us will be out diving.
Ryan

 

[cys]

.