Observations during gf's cert. class

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Just to chime in (get my feet wet I suppose!) I got my OW cert in October in the PNW and we did only tables, no eRDP or computers, although we did (briefly) discuss computers and the pros and cons of them. That said, my class was amazing and really well paced, and I feel a lot more at ease with the computer since I also understand the dive tables. I know what is (somewhat) behind the the computer, so I hold more of the acountability. Our logs (and instructor) also asked us to fill in the table information to keep track of our dives, which made us be aware of what we were doing. In the pool we had six divers, one instructor, and no less than 3 DMs and DMCs. In OW checkouts we had our instructor, four divers (two were certifying later) and 2 DMs who were leading tours, and two more just hanging around. I felt amazingly safe, even as a new diver, in a drysuit in five foot viz. But without an awesome instructor and some truly amazing DMs I doubt I would have felt anywhere near that safe and comfortable. She knew us well enough to know what made us nervous, and reacted to that. We dove with AL80s in the pool (I am a 5'2" female) and I had no issues climbing out of the pool with it on, and it made the transition to the steel tanks for the sound much easier. I loved my instructor enough that I will happily take any class she recommends, since I trust her completely. Without that trust...I don't know.
Just my thoughts :handball:
Megan
 
I assisted as DM with an open water class a few months ago and was shocked when they pulled out shiny PADI books just for learning about computers. I knew PADI was "doing away" with teaching tables, but didn't realize exactly how MUCH they were really doing away with. While I think that teaching how to use computers is a good thing seeing as they've pretty much become standard, it really upsets me that they're not enforcing the use of tables too. I watched our OW students do more jacking around with their computers underwater on their checkout dives than anything else. Talk about task loading. One of our students went on vacation with her family right after certification and she ran into me a couple of weeks ago and told me how confused she was because the regulators that they had wherever they were at had *ghasp!* analog depth gauges. She had no clue how to properly log her dives and figure out her NDL's. :shakehead:

I personally think that PADI is doing a major disservice to OW students by not making learning the basic tables inside and out mandatory. Just my 2psi though.
 
One of our students went on vacation with her family right after certification and she ran into me a couple of weeks ago and told me how confused she was because the regulators that they had wherever they were at had *gasp!* analog depth gauges.

I hadn't thought about that; a number of vacationing divers, such as on cruise ship excursions, may do a 'with gear' excursion or otherwise plan to be provided gear, and not all ops offer dive computers (much less one the diver's familiar with), and some divers may be 'computer dependent.' On the other hand, on a number of those excursions, it's the dive guide who plans the dive, and most just follow him around (which may have some forum members wincing).

I suppose it's needful to emphasize to the students that the industry still considers computers optional, and they're not offered by default everywhere the way regulators, BCDs & weights are.

Richard.

P.S.: I certified back in early '07. We did the tables. In addition to the PADI OW manual, I had a little book specifically for working the tables. Does everybody still get that? You could teach yourself the tables if so inclined.

P.S. #2: I took the PADI Nitrox course not long after OW; it used the tables. Does the course still use tables? If not, people coming from OW might find it a hassle.
 
I assisted as DM with an open water class a few months ago and was shocked when they pulled out shiny PADI books just for learning about computers. I knew PADI was "doing away" with teaching tables, but didn't realize exactly how MUCH they were really doing away with. While I think that teaching how to use computers is a good thing seeing as they've pretty much become standard, it really upsets me that they're not enforcing the use of tables too. I watched our OW students do more jacking around with their computers underwater on their checkout dives than anything else. Talk about task loading. One of our students went on vacation with her family right after certification and she ran into me a couple of weeks ago and told me how confused she was because the regulators that they had wherever they were at had *ghasp!* analog depth gauges. She had no clue how to properly log her dives and figure out her NDL's. :shakehead:

I personally think that PADI is doing a major disservice to OW students by not making learning the basic tables inside and out mandatory. Just my 2psi though.

I think this is a good point. Maybe things should be taught to the lowest common denominator. SPG, depth gauge and timing device with tables. That way students will be able to dive where ever they go, and not get into a situation where all their faith is in a DM.
 
I hadn't thought about that; a number of vacationing
P.S.: I certified back in early '07. We did the tables. In addition to the PADI OW manual, I had a little book specifically for working the tables. Does everybody still get that? You could teach yourself the tables if so inclined.

No they do not. From PADI:

60335 - Open Water Computer Diving crewpak

* Includes: How to Use and Choose Dive Computers book,
* Open Water manual
* Student record file
* and blue logbook.

This crewpak is similar to 60300 and 60067 but with no table/eRDP and the computer book instead.

Sadly, the students aren't even given a table. They're told to skip the section and knowledge review that deals tables in the OW manual. The "How to Use and Choose Dive Computers" book has a replacement knowledge review.

I also found it amusing that the computer book is printed on much higher quality paper than the OW manual and filled with photos and graphics.

P.S. #2: I took the PADI Nitrox course not long after OW; it used the tables. Does the course still use tables? If not, people coming from OW might find it a hassle.

Good question. If they don't teach that, then a basic nitrox course will go like this:

***WARNING: THOSE NOT NITROX CERTIFIED SHOULD NOT TAKE THIS AS SERIOUS ADVICE. IT'S A JOKE. OBTAIN PROPER TRAINING SO YOU DON'T KILL YOURSELF.***

1) Pay us $150
2) Have shop guy analyze gas
3) Set your computer to the correct %
4) Stay above the maximum depth it tells you
5) 30 minutes of video trying to sell you on other stuff you need to become a "master" scuba diver
 
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Just to chime in (get my feet wet I suppose!) I got my OW cert in October in the PNW and we did only tables, no eRDP or computers, although we did (briefly) discuss computers and the pros and cons of them. That said, my class was amazing and really well paced, and I feel a lot more at ease with the computer since I also understand the dive tables. I know what is (somewhat) behind the the computer, so I hold more of the acountability. Our logs (and instructor) also asked us to fill in the table information to keep track of our dives, which made us be aware of what we were doing. In the pool we had six divers, one instructor, and no less than 3 DMs and DMCs. In OW checkouts we had our instructor, four divers (two were certifying later) and 2 DMs who were leading tours, and two more just hanging around. I felt amazingly safe, even as a new diver, in a drysuit in five foot viz. But without an awesome instructor and some truly amazing DMs I doubt I would have felt anywhere near that safe and comfortable. She knew us well enough to know what made us nervous, and reacted to that. We dove with AL80s in the pool (I am a 5'2" female) and I had no issues climbing out of the pool with it on, and it made the transition to the steel tanks for the sound much easier. I loved my instructor enough that I will happily take any class she recommends, since I trust her completely. Without that trust...I don't know.
Just my thoughts :handball:
Megan

Megan, welcome to SB. Sounds like you had extraordinary instruction. Stick with your instructor and absorb all the knowledge that you can. You were in some of the toughest conditions and you're still excited about diving -- sounds like you'll be hooked for life.

If you haven't already, find a dive buddy and consider purchasing your own gear. Those two things are what kept me diving and allowed me to progress my skills.
 
You are totally right though- it is the instruction that makes all the difference. I am already buying gear and have signed up for more classes, and relish all the advice I get. I feel safe finding buddies knowing what to look for, and knowing that I have some people who will always be there to give advice when needed. I am glad I know the tables, because I can always verify what a computer tells me. I haven't yet had a computer to dive, and in so many ways I am thankful, because I have to learn to rely on that big pink thing in my head more...
 
Until this weekend I would have placed this in the hard to believe file. I got my ow cert this last summer and my class covered dive tables in depth. We worked dive tables from every angle in order to ensure we completely understood them. My instructor's/DM have a policy to ensure students are comfortable with skills, and understand the theory that is presented, no matter how long it takes or how many times they have to reexplain something to a student. I just finished my final check out dive for my AOW with the same instructors this weekend. After our dive I was cleaning my gear, I watched other instructors come out of the water with one class, give a half hearted dive brief to another class, and herd them onto the beach and into the water. At that point I was glad I found an instructor that actually cared about it's students. As much as people like to bash PADI, it's not them it's the poor instructors that are concerned with making the fast money.
 
As much as people like to bash PADI, it's not them it's the poor instructors that are concerned with making the fast money.

An agency is ultimately responsible for the quality of its instructors. But since instructors = money, and monitoring instructors = expense, they're unlikely to do so when official complaints aren't filed.
 
Don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm curious on where the "no deeper than 77ft" comes from.


Some people have a "rule of thumb" that maximum depth shouldn't be more than the CuFt in your tank.

A very popular "Aluminum 80" tank actually contains 77.4 CuFt of air. I believe this is where the above number comes from.

For anybody who might decide to use this rule, it's not actually appropriate for all dives and shouldn't be used in place of actual dive planning using real math, real tables and your actual SAC rate.

flots.
 
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