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“Paul Watson just said on ABC News Breakfast Australia that the Ady Gil has sunk, they (not sure which ship) had been towing her for 6-7 hours towards the French base but the weather picked up, she took on water and sunk. He confirmed that all fuel and oil had been taken off the vessel.”

I've lightered vessels. I've salvaged vessels. I've been involved with getting vessels ready for reefing. Unless he had a full crew onboard, with steam pressure washers and a ton of rags, the fuel and oil were not off the vessel. Maybe the majority was, maybe even a lot of it was, but I'd like to see the transfer logs for myself.

I reviewed the video's some more, and watched the interviews, and was willing, just barely, to give some benefit of doubt to SS, but this latest, to say they had removed the fuel and oil in heavy weather removes all doubt. Paul Watson will say anything for his cause.

Well, I have no doubt they slavaged what they could of the fuel ($$$$).

But you are correct. SS is putting a media propaganda spin on anything and everything.

You are correct that SS do not have a good understanding of the quality for "complete removal of polutants". There is still a film of fuel left on the tank walls of the sunken vessel, and there is probably a pool of fuel where the siphons did not reach. Well the pool is floating on the water that flooded the tanks, now.

Although I am not thoroughly convinced whether or not the whaler adjusted course several miles away just to intentionally engage or bear down on the bat mobile.
 
My Japanese isn't great either, but from what I can tell it sounded like a straightforward description of what was happening. I can't replay sound on this PC I'm on now, it has no speakers.

Remember these guys were filming with the intention of releasing the video to the outside world - they're hardly likely to be saying "we're getting close, last we time missed this sucker but we're going to ram it and sink those ********s".



Show me the numbers and I'll agree with you if you're right. It's easy to throw accusations around, but I prefer to deal with facts. If you can show me the fixed and variable costs of mounting these expeditions, the depreciation schedule for the boats and the realized P&L from selling whale meat then we have the basis for a discussion.

Until then, I can equally easily claim the opposite.


Good enough. I think we can probably do a rough calc. on diesel/personnel/maintenance for processing and hunter boats/security + ICR. It'll take a bit of time and there'll be some extrapolation ; I'm pretty sure the costs of doing business in Antarctica will far exceed yen per kilo of whale protein, or new science knowledge gained.

Question would be the actual price per kilo of whale when the processing boat ports in Japan?

X
 
Question would be the actual price per kilo of whale when the processing boat ports in Japan?

I've been doing some Googling - Science Daily puts the Korean price at up to US $100,000 per adult minke whale earlier this year.

Oregon State University. "'Bycatch' Whaling A Growing Threat To Coastal Whales." ScienceDaily 29 June 2009. 8 January 2010 <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090623120846.htm>.

This is more dated (2000):

Greenpeace Japan

The meat of whales caught in the northwest Pacific Ocean in the summer of 2000 were sold on a commitment basis to the market traders at the following wholesale prices.

The meat of whales caught in the northwest Pacific Ocean in the summer of 2000 were sold on a commitment basis to the market traders at the following wholesale prices.

*Minke whales: mainly red meat, 2,980 yen/kg
*Bryde's whales: red meat, 3,760 yen/kg
The prices were higher depending on part, and the wholesale prices announce in 1994 were reported as follows.
*Tail meat: (the part close to fin) 8,640 yen/kg
*Choice red meat: 4,500 yen/kg
*First class red meat: 3,730 yen/kg

If we assume 500 Minke whales were caught, then we're looking at sales of US$50 million assuming Korean prices are similar to Japanese prices.

I'll let you come back with your estimates for boat, diesel and crew costs. We can ignore the scientific work as this is purely about whether the operation is profitable, rather than the more intangible benefits.
 
Well, theres commercial whaling being done in Norway (unlike the Japanese were honest about it being commercial and were also not currently bound by the IWC embargo) and its done pretty much the same way the fishermen work (except mutch fewer and much bigger prey). If its profitable here, it should be profitable in Japan as well Id think?
 
If we assume 500 Minke whales were caught, then we're looking at sales of US$50 million assuming Korean prices are similar to Japanese prices.

I'll let you come back with your estimates for boat, diesel and crew costs. We can ignore the scientific work as this is purely about whether the operation is profitable, rather than the more intangible benefits.

Well, theres commercial whaling being done in Norway (unlike the Japanese were honest about it being commercial and were also not currently bound by the IWC embargo) and its done pretty much the same way the fishermen work (except mutch fewer and much bigger prey). If its profitable here, it should be profitable in Japan as well Id think?


Some early and very crude estimates -
* Bunker fuel (estimate) $110+ per barrel @ 200 tons = $ 22,000.00 a day.
* Personnel average based a per diem (big guess) don't know if it's share catch 600.00 x 12 = $ 7200.00...don't know how many on the factory boat yet.
* Incidentals - 3000.00
Daily operating rate = approx 30,000.00 per day. This is not out of the ballpark as some of the US RV vessels costs that much per day.

3 boats in the whaling fleet @ 30,000 = 90,000.00 + . 90 days at sea X 90,000.00 = 8,000,000.00

BTW - happy to have anyone add some $ insight here.

As per Norway's profitability...probably a lot better as the ships don't have to make the transit from Japan to the Antarctic, plus pay for massive warehousing and on-ship personnel. There is no BS PR agency that Norway supports also. Would be interesting to crunch numbers between the two.



X
 
Can't help but notice your figures leave the fleet hugely profitable, even with dozens more staff. You need to add in a depreciation margin (maybe depreciate the cost of the ship over 20 years) and also a maintenance budget.

There are other costs - like insurance and office staff but I am sure that the ships, staff and fuel make up the vast majority of the overall costs.

Not looking good for the "unprofitable" argument at the moment though....
 
Up until the 60's when whaling was stopped all together, we (Norway) had larger boats going all the way to the Antarctic. We still have land down there that belong to us.

Today's catches are mostly caught in our own local waters, or at least no further than Greenland. They use smaller boats with small crews.

Here's one:

1074563_h2778535c872538b504b2_v1253345784_672x.jpeg
 
Can't help but notice your figures leave the fleet hugely profitable, even with dozens more staff. You need to add in a depreciation margin (maybe depreciate the cost of the ship over 20 years) and also a maintenance budget.

There are other costs - like insurance and office staff but I am sure that the ships, staff and fuel make up the vast majority of the overall costs.

Not looking good for the "unprofitable" argument at the moment though....

Actually it doesn't from a vessel's operational cost perspective. Maintenance, docking, general infrastructure, government subsidies etc. needs to factored in. This will take some time and digging. There are still a lot of gaps. If the profit margin from this operation shows black - I'll eat my words.

X
 
We still have land down there that belong to us.

Like Australia's claim to the Antarctic waters the whaling is being carried on in, it's only recognized by the other claimants in Antarctica.

Wikipedia:
Seven sovereign states had made eight territorial claims to land in Antarctica below the 60° S parallel before 1961. These claims have been recognized only between the countries making claims in the area
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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