Equipment If you can't drop your weights and you are sinking

[Nick_Radov]

Training I got for this scenario was to position yourself behind unconscious diver, with right arm under their armpit holding the reg in their mouth (in case they are breathing, or come around during the ascent and start breathing) and ascend using my BC for lift for both of us. Between my BC and a kicking ascent, hope that would be enough lift. If not, I would have to add a small amount of air to their BCD I guess. Trying to keep the reg in their mouth, and manage air from two BCs on the way up might be too much task loading in my book.

I don't know who trained you but that is a dangerous procedure for both the rescuer and victim. If there are instructors actually teaching that kind of nonsense then someone needs to get them squared away before we have another fatality. You're correct that you should use your right hand to manage the unconscious diver's regulator and airway. But don't try to drag them to the surface by holding on and using the lift from your own BCD, or kicking up. At some point you're likely to lose your grip, resulting in the victim sinking again and the rescuer making an uncontrolled buoyant ascent.

The correct procedure is to get on top of the unconscious diver so that you're lying prone on top of their back tank(s). Dump gas from your own BCD (and drysuit if worn). Use the your left hand to control the victim's BCD (not your own) and establish the desired rate of ascent. Don't try to kick up. Some adjustments to the procedure may be needed if the victim is grossly overweighted or completely out of gas.

This is an advanced rescue procedure so please don't anybody go out and try to practice it based on my (oversimplified) comment. These skills need to be learned hands-on with a competent instructor. And realistically even if you do everything right the odds of successfully rescuing an unconscious diver are pretty low.

Unconcious Diver [English]

Unconscious Diver [English]

gue.tv

 

[Edward3c]

I don't know who trained you but that is a dangerous procedure for both the rescuer and victim. If there are instructors actually teaching that kind of nonsense then someone needs to get them squared away before we have another fatality. You're correct that you should use your right hand to manage the unconscious diver's regulator and airway. But don't try to drag them to the surface by holding on and using the lift from your own BCD, or kicking up. At some point you're likely to lose your grip, resulting in the victim sinking again and the rescuer making an uncontrolled buoyant ascent.

The correct procedure is to get on top of the unconscious diver so that you're lying prone on top of their back tank(s). Dump gas from your own BCD (and drysuit if worn). Use the your left hand to control the victim's BCD (not your own) and establish the desired rate of ascent. Don't try to kick up. Some adjustments to the procedure may be needed if the victim is grossly overweighted or completely out of gas.

This is an advanced rescue procedure so please don't anybody go out and try to practice it based on my (oversimplified) comment. These skills need to be learned hands-on with a competent instructor. And realistically even if you do everything right the odds of successfully rescuing an unconscious diver are pretty low.

Unconcious Diver [English]

Unconscious Diver [English]

gue.tv

Why not just accept different agencies teach different rescue techniques.

 

[Nick_Radov]

Why not just accept different agencies teach different rescue techniques.

I don't understand. Are you suggesting that we "accept" something which is dangerous and ineffective? If I see BS here then I'm going to call it out and not just let it pass.

 

[Edward3c]

I don't understand. Are you suggesting that we "accept" something which is dangerous and ineffective? If I see BS here then I'm going to call it out and not just let it pass.

I teach using the casualty’s buoyancy device to perform a CBL, I can understand teaching a CBL using your own buoyancy device, with the assumption there won’t be anything in the casualty’s cylinder.

 

[jborg]

Even in my PADI rescue course (I've done both it and the GUE variant as a refresher), that situation was handled by orally inflating the victim's BCD.

 

[Nick_Radov]

I teach using the casualty’s buoyancy device to perform a CBL, I can understand teaching a CBL using your own buoyancy device, with the assumption there won’t be anything in the casualty’s cylinder.

If the casualty's cylinder is empty then you can pull their BCD corrugated hose loose from the retaining strap and orally inflate it. Again, using your own BCD to lift up a negatively buoyant casualty is not going to work reliably in real world conditions. You only have one hand to hold on to the casualty. At some point you're likely to lose your grip and drop them. What sounds like a good idea online doesn't work underwater where everything is slippery and moving around.

The instructors teaching this stuff need to get clear on the basics.

 

[Still Kicking]

I don't know who trained you but that is a dangerous procedure for both the rescuer and victim. If there are instructors actually teaching that kind of nonsense then someone needs to get them squared away before we have another fatality. You're correct that you should use your right hand to manage the unconscious diver's regulator and airway. But don't try to drag them to the surface by holding on and using the lift from your own BCD, or kicking up. At some point you're likely to lose your grip, resulting in the victim sinking again and the rescuer making an uncontrolled buoyant ascent.

The correct procedure is to get on top of the unconscious diver so that you're lying prone on top of their back tank(s). Dump gas from your own BCD (and drysuit if worn). Use the your left hand to control the victim's BCD (not your own) and establish the desired rate of ascent. Don't try to kick up. Some adjustments to the procedure may be needed if the victim is grossly overweighted or completely out of gas.

This is an advanced rescue procedure so please don't anybody go out and try to practice it based on my (oversimplified) comment. These skills need to be learned hands-on with a competent instructor. And realistically even if you do everything right the odds of successfully rescuing an unconscious diver are pretty low.

Unconcious Diver [English]

Unconscious Diver [English]

gue.tv

It was 20+ years ago and it think you are right -- I most likely misremember the training. It was from a reputable agency.

Thankfully I have never needed to try this. I agree it's an advanced technique and a last-ditch effort.

In the only situation I am aware of personally where well trained tech divers recovered an unconsious buddy (a friend), they made the victim positively buoyant and lost control of them during the ascent. The victim died but the autopsy indicated they were most likely dead on the bottom anyway.

I have thought a lot about that accident and the inability of the divers to control the buddy's ascent using their BCD/drysuit may be coloring my memory of what I was taught.

 

[Edward3c]

If the casualty's cylinder is empty then you can pull their BCD corrugated hose loose from the retaining strap and orally inflate it. Again, using your own BCD to lift up a negatively buoyant casualty is not going to work reliably in real world conditions. You only have one hand to hold on to the casualty. At some point you're likely to lose your grip and drop them. What sounds like a good idea online doesn't work underwater where everything is slippery and moving around.

The instructors teaching this stuff need to get clear on the basics.

The biggest issue I see in CBL drills, is when the rescuer is using both their suit and BCD to stay neutral during a dive, but unable to manage 4 expanding bubbles on the ascent. The result is either a Polaris ascent, separation or a plummet to the bottom.

I agree using the rescuer’s BCD isn’t my choice, and isn’t something I teach.

 

[Scuba Bobby]

If I found an unconcious diver on a recreational dive. I would not mess around with trying to find a weightbelt or weight pockets. I would simply grab them and inflate their BC, and hang on tightly. I am pretty sure I could modulate the amount of air in the victim's bc (as well as my own) on the ascent.

If I pressed the up button and no air came out or I saw that air was just venting from their BC, then I would mash MY up button, and hang on. I generally have a decent amount of excess lift capacity in my BC and this exact scenario is one reason why I don't try to minimize the lift capacity of the BC's I buy.

Dropping lead would be my third option for bringing a diver up, partly because it is more complicated than pressing a button.

From a strategy perspective, it makes sense to try to first inflate the victims BC, because if you should accidentally "drop" them, or loose contact (for whatever reason), once you made them buoyant, you can be reasonably sure they will end up on the surface and not sink back down to the bottom. Also, operating the victim's bc is pretty easy, since you can readily see the device, it may even be easier than grabbing your own.

The challenge is to also vent your bc on the ascent, you will need to manage two BC's; if their BC has the capacity, it might beneficial to completely vent your BC on the bottom, so you have only one container to deal with, but that is assuming a lot of moving parts in a life or death emergency.

I fully agree with this, this is what is taught in the BSAC CBL from ocean diver all the way up..

IMO this is the best way to do it. The safest place is at the surface, the priority is to get the cas up, rescue breaths on the surface once both positively boyant, tow to shore or boat, assess and conduct BLS and get yourself and the cas on 100% oxygen and be prepared to go into a chamber, its pretty simple drill, practice it (safely) and it all becomes muscle memory.

 

[LFMarm]

The biggest issue I see in CBL drills, is when the rescuer is using both their suit and BCD to stay neutral during a dive, but unable to manage 4 expanding bubbles on the ascent. The result is either a Polaris ascent, separation or a plummet to the bottom.

I agree using the rescuer’s BCD isn’t my choice, and isn’t something I teach.

In CCR diving you may be in a case where you have 6 bubbles to manage during a rescue. And this is one of the skills trained and tested for. Definitely not easy but can be done with practice.