DIR- GUE Finding teammates after failing fundamentals

[overthinking_diver]

Thanks for the replies everyone. This is all tremendously helpful!

Let me answer some questions:

Just wondering, didn't you have a video debrief after every dive? I'm surprised the kicking wasn't pointed out to you on video after the first dive, and some brainstorming on possible reasons discussed.

We did! The tricky part was to find position of trim weights that worked both with full and empty tanks. One day I felt pretty good with trim weight and empty tanks, but the next day felt pretty feet heavy again with full tanks.

Did you do a static trim test where you become neutral a foot or so above the bottom and stretch out, relax and see if you start rotating?

Not in class, but I did two more days of diving the weekend before the class and tried this and was very much feet heavy.

As others already pointed out, you are attempting to use skills for fixing a problem with your equipment. Which is wrong: fix your equipment!

Good point! I thought about equipment vs skill problem. At my level, I assume everything is a skill problem . But I will absolutely play with different fins, and different trim weights. I'm hesitant to adjust the harness too much because it's, you know, "instructor approved". But I'll need a thicker wetsuit for north east diving anyway, so I might have to adjust a bit.

You say that you might need another year or two to get to the pass level.

Not so much to get the skills up to par. It's mostly to prepare mentally and make sure I have enough gas in the tank so I don't burn out by the end again.

I don't deal with failure particularly well. Not in the sense that I lash out, claim I'm the best and demand a pass. It's the opposite - I fill myself with self doubt - am I good enough, do I belong here, why am I dong this, look how easy it is for the other guy. That sort of stuff. Not helpful thoughts when you're trying to do a valve drill Logically, I know this is dumb, which is why I'm not giving up and why I posted this and will find teammates and continue improving. But emotions aren't always logical.

So a lot of the preparation I need will be mental and out of the water.

Was there a significant difference in skills between you and the other two?

Yeah, we were two students, one instructor. The other student was a tech/cave/rebreather diver with significantly more experience. It was his first GUE class so we both kinda struggled at the beginning. I'm pretty sure he got a tech pass because he was talking about redoing his cave training by taking cave 1 with the same instructor in the fall.

The team aspect was my favorite part of the whole experience. It was so cool to solve little problems together as a team. Also, my teammate was great, super helpful, hope we get to dive again together some day.

I couldn't find anything about what gear you were in

I was in double AL80s with a canister light - the full tech configuration. Not because I had any hope of getting a tech pass but because I want to dive this way eventually and you know "beginning with the end in mind" and all.

Looking back, I probably should've done a single tank. I found this really helpful page - Course Progressions | Wet Rocks Diving a little too late and had already committed in my mind to using doubles, bought the wing and everything.

@overthinking_diver, out of curiosity, did you get a fail or a provisional?

By the way, if you got a fail because of bad attitude - that would probably be a red flag for me

I did fail, no provisional. I don't think attitude was the reason. I touch on it a a little above. It's a little weird to admit to strangers on the internet but I wasn't mentally and emotionally prepared to last the whole class and completely burned myself out by the end.

 

[overthinking_diver]

I found this really helpful page - Course Progressions | Wet Rocks Diving a little too late and had already committed in my mind to using doubles, bought the wing and everything.

Oh, I did NOT take the class with this shop. I feel like I might've unintentionally implied that.

I've just been researching this for a while now and have read everything I could find about GUE online.

 

[Heat Miser]

mate your not going to pass fundies in a wetsuit… you’ll get there but you need to go whole hog

 

[OrcasC205]

To be honest, it sounds like you have a great attitude and will come back and be more successful next time with what you've already learned and practicing what you know you need to work on.

Fundies is a grueling class. My wife just finished it this weekend and I was completely worn out just diving with the class to take video and helping the instructor do things like retrieving students' SMBs.

 

[overthinking_diver]

This is my issue with the dir forum being open to anyone. You didn’t need to post this. You could keep it to yourself. This is the dir forum so people here are interest3d in dir and gue

This is a little like going to a forum about running where people discuss marathon training and posting:

Hey guys, this is all good but you should really consider getting a car. It'll get you much faster from point A to point B and your joints won't hurt as much. I started driving in 1984 when I got my license from the local DMV. No one has complained about my skills. When I was an active driving instructor I was trusted to teach movie, TV and sporting stars how to drive.

Would I ever try running - no, because I like to think freely for myself rather than being told I have to have this equipment, have to move through space this way - but to each their own. A car racing team recently tried to get me out of instructor retirement and become a car racing instructor for them. Unfortunately, they don't suit me due to their rigid thinking about equipment configuration so I declined.

@RedSeaDiver2, this is a joke, please don't get offended. I'm new here so I still don't know what's allowed. I've had a pretty tough week, please let me have this one.

I actually appreciate your post. It's good to remember that GUE, UTD, etc are not the *only* way to get good at diving. There are a lot of world class divers who've never done a GUE EDGE. You seem to be one of them. I'd love to read more about all the famous people you've trained, so I'll search your posts here. You must have a ton of awesome stories to share.

For me personally (and for now), GUE is a pretty good fit. I love the precision, attention to detail, teamwork. I don't mind the strict equipment configuration. So far, literally 90% of my diving experience has been with a single tank, short hose, jacket BC so if I had to design my own configuration for backmount doubles, I would have made a lot of subtle and some obvious mistakes making it unsafe to dive. It's a lot of stuff to figure out and I don't have your experience to do it myself. So GUE's configuration is a great starting point. I don't think when you get a GUE card you need to sign a contract to *always* dive like this. But I guess, I wouldn't know

 

[Heat Miser]

This is a little like going to a forum about running where people discuss marathon training and posting:

Hey guys, this is all good but you should really consider getting a car. It'll get you much faster from point A to point B and your joints won't hurt as much. I started driving in 1984 when I got my license from the local DMV. No one has complained about my skills. When I was an active driving instructor I was trusted to teach movie, TV and sporting stars how to drive.

Would I ever try running - no, because I like to think freely for myself rather than being told I have to have this equipment, have to move through space this way - but to each their own. A car racing team recently tried to get me out of instructor retirement and become a car racing instructor for them. Unfortunately, they don't suit me due to their rigid thinking about equipment configuration so I declined.

My fundies instructor had done 2,000 dives as Padi instructor and could not believe he couldn’t pass and get into trim. You started late in life it’s hard to change accept you need to change and the change will happen faster.

 

[Imla]

Question... You said you were in Double Alu80s. Are you SURE you were actually leg heavy?

The reason I ask is that top heavy can often feel like "leg heavy" for the diver, because the natural way of compensating for being top heavy is to either go completely out of trim, legs down. (Because If you were to force yourself to be horizontal, you would have a feeling of toppling over) OR, the one that GUE instructors tend to kick on, DROPPING your knees. IE, you are compensating for being top heavy with dropping legs. In the video this might look like horizontal body to about hip area, and then legs making a V with knees being the lowest point.

As Alu80s tend to get "butt-light" and having the manifold and regs on top, most people I've been diving with at least have used a tailweight to offset this.

So: challenge. For one dive, try to stretch your legs nearly straight out. Use a tailweight. (If you dont have one, use tape and tape one to the bottom of your tanks. (Make sure to dive a balanced rig)

Try a static trim test. Have someone look at you and signal the angle you have your body in. When horizontal, make a not of any feeling of toppling over.

This is an extremely counterintuitive feeling, and more often than not just needs to be experienced if it is truly the problem. It may look like you are bottom heavy, but your bodys natural mechanisms of compensating hides the fact that you are indeed top heavy. Might be worth a try.

 

[whynot]

I did fail, no provisional. I don't think attitude was the reason. I touch on it a a little above. It's a little weird to admit to strangers on the internet but I wasn't mentally and emotionally prepared to last the whole class and completely burned myself out by the end.

Disregard if you've done this already.

But have you checked to see what your "official" course completion status is yet? That's if the instructor has even posted it yet. If not, you should really do that (reference below) and report back with whether you have formally received a 'fail, incomplete, provisional, or pass'; note that 'incomplete' is a newer result.

 

[BoltSnap]

I'd be delighted to dive with anyone willing to work on their skills and try to improve. The only divers I generally try to stay away from are know-it-alls who stubbornly hold on to dangerous diving practices.

Would you dive with me and show me how to you dive in your part of the world if I have never been trained to diver there? Are you the patient type? Would you do that in your "joy dives"?

 

[BoltSnap]

The instructor is meant to teach you and instruct you, not simply be there to evaluate your skills and let you spiral out of control if you're unable to do it well enough on your own.

This is exactly right, this was my first impression reading the OP. Frequently, the instructor is the one that "failed" the student not the student failing the course. I would never tell a student who is still trying to learn that they "failed" and should stop the course. I'd work with them to the end of the course and even add time and extra effort to help them if they are genuinely wanting to learn.