How to (politely) advocate for more weight?

[Wibble]

It is very common for divers to dive with the least possible weight. I used to be there myself. Today I am happier with a few extra pounds than the supposed ideal. With too much weight, though, it becomes more difficult to manage buoyancy, especially in shallow water.

Nothing worse than a period of decompression where you have squeezed out every last drop of gas from your drysuit because you're slightly too light. Now you're still too light, you're being squeezed, are freezing cold and have floating-to-the-surface anxiety.

A couple or three pounds / one or two kg over is far preferable to being light. On the bottom it doesn't make a massive difference in buoyancy. It's at your stops that you appreciate it; especially the extra warmth.

 

[Belzelbub]

In warm water/3mm shorty, they usually want to give me 12lbs. I can usually "negotiate" up to 14 before splashing, and end up at 16-18 once in the water. In colder water/5mm full (again, only done twice), they offered me 22lbs.

Thanks for clarifying. That doesn't sound like it's grossly overweighting. When I was first certified, the instructor used the 10% rule of thumb. 10% of body weight as ballast. That turned out to be a little more than I need with an AL80 and 3mm full, but not by a huge factor. While ideal weighting is always preferred, it's better to have a bit too much lead, than to have too little. On your next dive, it might be worthwhile to carry a couple of 1 lb weights that you can get to easily. At the safety stop, you should be able to hold without air in the BC. Remove 1 lb at a time and have your buddy hold (discuss prior to the dive, of course.) If you can't hold the depth with the weight removed, then you are properly weighted. If you can, repeat.

This will at least tell you where you should be. If you are still having trouble descending at the beginning, it's likely due to subconsciously holding a little more air in your lungs.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I have a similar issue and totally feel your frustration when asking for weight. In tropics, with only a rash guard and a AL80 I use 18lbs. I'm 6'1 and 250lbs. I could definitely loose 30lbs to be at my college playing weight......but then college days were 50 years ago! I just returned home from the BVI's from a week of diving and the 18lbs is perfect. When I'm traveling and need to ask for my preferred amount of lead I get that I am asking for more than most ask for...... so I am confident and adamant about what I want and then I let my buoyancy skills support my choice.

I'm actually about to go through a new "weighting" exercise tomorrow.......here in Puget Sound. I just recently purchased a new Tri-Lam drysuit and undergarment and so do not yet know what will be the optimum weight. My previous Drysuit was a Harvey's Titanium 7mm Neoprene with minimal undergarment and I needed 36lbs plus two 1.5 lb ankle weights to be comfortable and most importantly to be able to comfortably hover without effort at 15-20 feet with 500 psi or less in a Steel HP 102 and a full AL19 back mounted Pony. My BC is an integrated Seaquest Black Diamond harness / wing style with ditchable weight pockets and two non ditchable trim pockets along the tank. With my neoprene DS, I kept one 3lb weight (right side) and one 5lb (left side) in each of my back trim pockets. I then had 14 in each of my pull pockets (to offset the tank mounted pony) and 12 in my right pull pocket.

So....my dive tomorrow will be strictly all about determining proper weight. No camera, no spear gun, no tasking other than my primary goal of determining proper weight with the new suit. I'll probably start with the 35bs and then go up or down from there as needed. I still have a "float tube" with flag and auger anchor from my past teaching days so will have that with me in the water in case I find that I need to add or remove weight.

I have a steel HP 102 here that I've been using for testing regs and it has about 1500psi so my plan is just hit 30 ft, breath it down to 400 -500 and then see if I can easily hover at 15-20 ft with no drysuit squeeze and and no air in my BC.

Anyway..... that's the plan! Looking forward to trying the new Tri Lam on a dive!!!!

 

[columbus jones]

I want to understand this correctly. You seem to be saying that you could not submerge, but once you were down and doing the dive, you were fine. Most importantly, were you fine all the way through the dive, including a safety stop? If so, then you had enough weight. Your failure to get down initially could have been trapped air somewhere in the BCD bladder and/or a failure to exhale on descent.

I could not submerge with 14lbs. The DM pulled me down, attempted to ensure I didn't have trapped air by checking my deflator and pulling on my BCD dump valves, and then added 4lbs to my kit (2lbs in each trim pocket). Once I had the extra weight, I was fine for the dive. Hovering at various depths, making minor adjustments via breathing, safety stop, etc, no problem. But that was only after the extra weight.

(Edit: I saw you ask in a different comment about the dive: was Hawaii, in a 3mm shorty, vest-style Aqualung weight-integrated BCD, steel tank. I did not ask if it was an 80/100/120 and I can't tell the difference by sight. I know someone in the group was told they had a larger one than the rest, so I assume it was either an 80 or a 100 that I had. I will definitely ask next time so I can make a note in my log).

I've been saying this to folks in DMs but I want to make sure I'm saying it in the thread too: thank y'all so much for taking your time to work with a newbie. I'm sure I sound like an idiot to y'all but you aren't treating me like one, and I appreciate it. I'm definitely getting the sense that I'll eventually be fine at a lower weight, so my plan going forward is to at least attempt with whatever weight a shop wants to give me at first and not assume I'll always "need" 16-18lbs. It definitely feels "necessary" right now but I realize I'm new and still getting used to things.

 

[boulderjohn]

A couple or three pounds / 1 or two kg over is far preferable to being light. On the bottom it doesn't make a massive difference in buoyancy. It's at your stops that you appreciate it; especially the extra warmth.

I agree with this.

My first turnaround in thinking came when I was diving with a steel 120 in Cozumel using a ScubaPro Nighthawk BCD and a 3mm suit, and I found I was nearly perfectly weighted with no weight at all. As I finished each dive, I had only about a burp of air in the BCD, and I had to maneuver my body to find that burp and get it to a dump site. After a day or two of that, I added some pounds.

My second turnaround came after I had started tech diving but was still using the ScubaPro Nighthawk for recreational dives. I had found that with a 3mm suit and an AL 80, I was beautifully trimmed and weighted with 8 pounds distributed with 2 pounds in each of the 2 integrated pockets and the 2 shoulder trim pockets. Then I was on a dive boat that only had 4 pound weights. What was I to do? Because I had started tech diving, I had started to become accustomed to diving overweighted, so I went with 4 weights in each of the 4 pockets, meaning I was 8 pounds overweighted. I had some beautiful dives, leading me to conclude that in the choice between good weighting and good trim, go with good trim. I would much prefer not to be 8 pounds overweighted, but I will still prefer it to being better weighted with everything on the waist.

 

[Doby45]

I have a similar issue and totally feel your frustration when asking for weight. In tropics, with only a rash guard and a AL80 I use 18lbs. I'm 6'1 and 250lbs. I could definitely loose 30lbs to be at my college playing weight......but then college days were 50 years ago! I just returned home from the BVI's from a week of diving and the 18lbs is perfect. When I'm traveling and need to ask for my preferred amount of lead I get that I am asking for more than most ask for...... so I am confident and adamant about what I want and then I let my skills

I'm actually about to go through a new "weighting" exercise tomorrow.......here in Puget Sound. I just recently purchased a new Tri-Lam drysuit and undergarment and so do not yet know what will be the optimum weight. My previous Drysuit was a Harvey's Titanium 7mm Neoprene with minimal undergarment and I needed 36lbs plus two 1.5 lb ankle weights to be comfortable and most importantly to be able to comfortably hover without effort at 15-20 feet with 500 psi or less in a Steel HP 102 and a full AL19 back mounted Pony. My BC is an integrated Seaquest Black Diamond harness / wing style with ditchable weight pockets and two non ditchable trim pockets along the tank. With my neoprene DS, I kept one 3lb weight (right side) and one 5lb (left side) in each of my back trim pockets. I then had 14 in each of my pull pockets (to offset the tank mounted pony) and 12 in my right pull pocket.

So....my dive tomorrow will be strictly all about determining proper weight. No camera, no spear gun, no tasking other than my primary goal of determining proper weight with the new suit. I'll probably start with the 35bs and then go up or down from there as needed. I still have a "float tube" with flag and auger anchor from my past teaching days so will have that with me in the water in case I find that I need to add or remove weight.

I have a steel HP 102 here that I've been using for testing regs and it has about 1500psi so my plan is just hit 30 ft, breath it down to 400 -500 and then see if I can easily hover at 15-20 ft with no drysuit squeeze and and no air in my BC.

Anyway..... that's the plan! Looking forward to trying the new Tri Lam on a dive!!!!

Question is: Is it being in a black suit that makes you a badass or is it badass folk dive black suits?

 

[boulderjohn]

The BCD can make a big difference.

I was recently on a 2-week trip to Roatan, with one week shore based and one week on a boat. When I got there, I discovered to my dismay that I had left the single tank adapter for my backplate and wing assembly at home. There was no replacing it, so for each week I had to rent a BCD, and each of them was a big, cumbersome unit that I was assured was the best that ScubaPro and Aqualung offered. I felt like I was diving with an inner tube around my waist. I looked at my friends with their backplate and wings, with the wings barely protruding from the sides of their tanks, and understood why I was wearing more weight than I had dreamed possible. I would have scoffed if you had told me before the dives how much weight I would need.

 

[columbus jones]

I had some beautiful dives, leading me to conclude that in the choice between good weighting and good trim, go with good trim. I would much prefer not to be 8 pounds overweighted, but I will still prefer it to being better weighted with everything on the waist.

Is it possible that it wasn't really the "extra" weights she gave me that helped, but instead the fact that she put them in my trim pockets instead of my side pockets? I asked why she did that (I was legit curious) and she said it was because it was easier than pulling out my integrated side pouches to add weight. But your quote above has got me thinking! Can trim impact your ability to descend? I always thought it was more about keeping you level/horizontal, but I've been wrong about stuff before. Google hasn't really provided me an answer on this one.

 

[Ana]

4 pages in less than 24 hours and most of the posts are questioning the validity of the OP requesting however many pounds of lead... Seriously people?

How about next time you go to a dive shop and they give you lip, tell them to give you the freaking weights and STFU.

What is going on with the dive shops? if the person is not walking in asking for your opinion just give what they ask.

 

[TMHeimer]

Yeah, what Ana said. I went through the same thing back in 2007. Took PADI PPB course in Florida. Instructor (an excellent one IMO) couldn't believe I needed that much weight-- until we did a weight check and he found that I was indeed correct. I dive in a 7 mil farmer john wetsuit and use 42 pounds. An instructor elsewhere said for the same setup he used 22 pounds. Good for him. An instructor here at our shop uses 38 with my setup-- so that's pretty close to my 42. Some people just need more weight, regardless of their physical statistics, body weight, etc. just like some need more sleep. Of course I've also many times heard the statement that you should be able to drop some weight as you gain experience. I never understand that, unless it means you were pretty dorky in the water right out of OW course. That wasn't the case with me--I use the same weight as 17 years ago. That's probably because I was absolutely the greatest diver ever to emerge from OW course.....
Of course if you're diving locally where you are in N.E., why not just buy the weights you need and just argue with the dopes you encounter in the tropics?