Question Sidemount or backmount doubles?

[Searcaigh]

>99% of us probably started on backmount and as we progressed we move onto different configurations to suit certain types of diving.

Are backmounted doubles for everyone? No!
Are side mounted twin tanks for everyone? No!

Horses for courses, like choosing what gas to use for certain dives, there is no "one size fits all" in this game.

 

[Wibble]

And secondly, it’s true side mount should not be a primary system for most people.

Disagree completely with your assertion. Sidemount is a perfectly good system for general purpose diving and is far superior than others for ease of use and redundancy.

 

[Cheizz]

In terms of why sidemount is unwieldy at the surface, it's largely because it's not rigidly attached to your body so everything moves which is irritating when you're moving around.

That is a solid downside of SM.

Horses for courses, like choosing what gas to use for certain dives, there is no "one size fits all" in this game.

True. But at this point, I still have that choice and I want to make it consciously and based on something else than 'everybody else does it'. Figuring out the pros and cons is the first step in that process. Trying both configurations out is another. Deciding which pros and which cons have more weight FOR ME is the next step, etc.

I want to make a choice (at some point) between SM and BM because I don't think it's realistic to learn both at the same time. It will be one and then if I want to, the other.

 

[barth]

Sidemount is more complicated.

In doubles you should have the same mix. In sidemount tanks it’s not always the same.

When you share gas with a buddy, back mount is very effective, you can both breath until there is no gas anymore. With sidemount 1 tank will be empty earlier.

With backmount you use 1 regulator during the dive when there are no issues. With sidemount you have to switch between regulators.

It’s much easier to carry tanks to the water with backmount then sidemount.

There is a standard for backmount with standard hose lengths and things like that. There is no standards for sidemount.

There are much more reasons to chose backmount. I prefer backmount.

We’re do you want to do longer dives and what are your buddies using ?

 

[Wibble]

Backmount and sidemount aren’t mutually exclusive unless there’s real time constraints on your diving. You’ll need to learn one before the other, but that aside they’re similar enough.

On to the sidemount's arduous on the surface discussion...

The thing with a DIR-style backmount twinset (other formats are available such as independents...) is that it's a single 50kg/110 pound lump on your back. You stand it up on the boot of your car, turn around and get into it and carry it down to the boat, climb on and sit down in your space; get out of the harness and tie the twinset on to the boat.

To dive with backmount you just untie the twinset -- do your checks (gas on, gas pressure, breathe) -- and sit into the harness.

That really is easy and convenient...

Unless you've got to walk a km/mile and up and down steps, etc. Then backmount's bloody heavy -- see pic below climbing up a very steep path...

The falacy about sidemount is that it's difficult to carry. It really isn't difficult as you can:

• Make separate trips carrying things separately;
• You can put the components (harness/wing + two cylinders) into a single bag and carry that (caving/climbing tackle bags are great, especially the 200m one);
• Or you can carry your cylinders clipped to the harness, just like you would if carrying stage cylinders (for this you need a tweak to the cylinders and harness and add a nose clip on a standard stage cylinder rigging kit which works a treat -- this is how I've rigged my sidemounted bailout cylinders on my rebreather)

On the boat, you don't need a seat as such, although you can simply stand your two cylinders up and tie them together on to the boat, like a backmounter would. Personally I prefer to have them on the deck with the stage cylinders so they don't move. I will stand back from the people kitting up in CCR/backmount and put the sidemount harness on. When finished and with a short time to go before jumping, will hang the LH cylinder on (using a nose clip as it's soooo much easier) and put the short hose around my neck with the necklace. Breathe. Then put the RH cylinder on and route the longhose around my neck and breathe. Am ready to jump! No faff, no worries.




A b'stard of a hill to climb to go diving. Sidemount's so easy in comparison!

 

[rddvet]

Why?

There are a number of reasons and have been stated earlier in the thread, but I'll give you a few:
1) first and foremost sm divers on boats are more of a pain in the ass than bm divers. SM hardcores (which I have been for many years) will argue that that's not true. BS. It takes more space on the boat and mroe time for a good sm diver to get in the water. Add to that, imo and many boat captains' opinions, climbing a ladder in pitching seas with doubles is safer than sm. If a sm diver isn't pulling up to the side of the boat and hanging tanks, then typically they are climbing the ladder with both tanks on. A very good number even unhook bungies first. In a pitching boat those tanks are not solidly on your sides like doubles are on your back, making for a potentially sketchy exit

2) Alot of boats are banning sm

3) SM is very finicky. Even if you take a good quality sm course, sm is always going to be more finicky and fidgety with gear. For a newer, nontechnical diver there is the potential for a steep learning curve

4) There are alot of shi--y sm divers nowadays because it's become mainstream. A big portion of this is due to the fact that many OW divers jumping into sm barely have their trim and buoyancy under control. Throw in sm, and now you've got a cluster-f in the water. I've seen it many times, even in the caves where most people go in with decent skills

5) There are alot of shi--y sm instructors now putting out shi--y students because it's a cool money making fad.

6) Sm is more of a unitasker. If you're buying a sm setup, that's all you'll be using it for. If you buy a bp/w, you can dive singles and doubles with it (may just require a different wing size)

7) SM feels great in the water, but so does bm if you're properly trained or properly capable using doubles. In the water if you're not doing tight penetration dives, there is no benefit to sm over bm. Many sm divers will say they feel much better in sm than bm. I was that way for a long time, but I eventually re-evaluated my weaknesses in bm and realized it was me not the system.

8) As you move into the tech world, stage and deco bottle management is not as simple as bm. I can very easily dive 2 stages and a deco bottle in sm. It took alot of tweaking and modifying how I carried and setup the stage to get it right. It feels very good now, but it was work and it is for many people. There's about 50 different ways to carry and setup a stage for sm. Really only 1 or 2 typical ways in bm. That means in the future if you make other technical buddies, it's easier to both show up to a dive site and have somewhat similar gear setups. Less time explaining to your buddy how to address emergencies in sm if they occur if the buddy isn't familiar.

Hopefully that's a good enough bunch of reasons. I have more, but don't feel like continuing, especially because I know I'm already going to get the same couple people arguing the same points they always do. And that gets old.

And one last time: I am a very big sm proponent and have many years and 100s of technical dives under my belt in sm, and I really enjoy it. But at the end of the day if I just want to go dive and have fun, bm doubles is the way to go. Gear is setup and ready to go out of the back of my car. Just put it on and go. No fiddling or faddling around with stuff.
Learn bm first and the principles necessary to dive a redundant system (valve checks, s drills, emergency management, etc). If you find a point in your diving that sm is necessary, you're transition over to it should be very easy. SM was invented to be a tool, but it's been adopted as a fad and from what I've seen I don't think that's a good thing.

Disagree completely with your assertion. Sidemount is a perfectly good system for general purpose diving and is far superior than others for ease of use and redundancy.

I'm not surprised. You don't seem to agree with alot I say and vice versa. I have no interest in trying to argue points with you because it historically is a waste of my time

 

[Wibble]

Sidemount is more complicated.

Sorry, have to disagree. It's not difficult.

In doubles you should have the same mix. In sidemount tanks it’s not always the same.

As above, you adjust for this and slight difference have no affect. If the gas is wrong you do the standard backmount process: scweem and scweem and scweem at the filling station until you are sick.

When you share gas with a buddy, back mount is very effective, you can both breath until there is no gas anymore. With sidemount 1 tank will be empty earlier.

No it won't. They'll basically have within 30bar / 30x14 psi difference. Breathe the RH one down to 30 bar less than the left; switch and breathe that to 30bar less than the RHS (i.e. 60bar), and repeat.

Rescue: you give them the long hose. When they've breathed it all, they are screwed. You have your own tin to breathe from. On a twinset both run out of gas?

With backmount you use 1 regulator during the dive when there are no issues. With sidemount you have to switch between regulators.

On a twinset you must switch occasionally to verify your backup is working.

It’s much easier to carry tanks to the water with backmount then sidemount.

See above.

There is a standard for backmount with standard hose lengths and things like that. There is no standards for sidemount.

Since when was the DIR standard a standard?

The reality is that most sidemounters use a longhose. Some choose not to because there's no need to share; it's down to the other divers to carry enough gas and not get into the situation where there's no gas. (This well-hard attitude is brought to you by divers who don't dive in clean water caves with enough room for a backmount set)

There are much more reasons to chose backmount. I prefer backmount.

That's great. But backmount isn't the be all and end all. Neither's sidemount, no-mount, a single tank, and all the CCR variants.

 

[lakedog]

They are both good proven tools in the dive bag imo. It depends on what diving you do. I am an OW diver, the majority of my diving has been solo spearfishing. I use both backmount and sidemount depending. I took my training in Marianna, FL with Rob Neto with the purpose of solo OW rec diving not deep or cave. In cold water, it's nice to have a heavy plate. In the water, imo a dialed in sidemount rig is superior and easy to transport. Good luck and have fun exploring your options. Safe diving.

 

[James79]

I have no experience in either, but I'm curious that just adding a stage was only mentioned by one person and then effectively ignored.... wouldn't that be the easiest "I just want a little longer air supply" option? Stage rigging is small, throw it in with the rest of your gear, and if you want the extra time at a destination just grab 2 tanks (backmount and a stage).
Also, I know they are out of favor, but independent doubles would also solve the availability question while having the same profile/ease of adaptation of modern doubles (main change would be gas management akin to SM).

Just spit-balling ideas.

Respectfully,

James

 

[rddvet]

Backmount and sidemount aren’t mutually exclusive unless there’s real time constraints on your diving. You’ll need to learn one before the other, but that aside they’re similar enough.

On to the sidemount's arduous on the surface discussion...

The thing with a DIR-style backmount twinset (other formats are available such as independents...) is that it's a single 50kg/110 pound lump on your back. You stand it up on the boot of your car, turn around and get into it and carry it down to the boat, climb on and sit down in your space; get out of the harness and tie the twinset on to the boat.

To dive with backmount you just untie the twinset -- do your checks (gas on, gas pressure, breathe) -- and sit into the harness.

That really is easy and convenient...

Unless you've got to walk a km/mile and up and down steps, etc. Then backmount's bloody heavy -- see pic below climbing up a very steep path...

The falacy about sidemount is that it's difficult to carry. It really isn't difficult as you can:

• Make separate trips carrying things separately;
• You can put the components (harness/wing + two cylinders) into a single bag and carry that (caving/climbing tackle bags are great, especially the 200m one);
• Or you can carry your cylinders clipped to the harness, just like you would if carrying stage cylinders (for this you need a tweak to the cylinders and harness and add a nose clip on a standard stage cylinder rigging kit which works a treat -- this is how I've rigged my sidemounted bailout cylinders on my rebreather)

On the boat, you don't need a seat as such, although you can simply stand your two cylinders up and tie them together on to the boat, like a backmounter would. Personally I prefer to have them on the deck with the stage cylinders so they don't move. I will stand back from the people kitting up in CCR/backmount and put the sidemount harness on. When finished and with a short time to go before jumping, will hang the LH cylinder on (using a nose clip as it's soooo much easier) and put the short hose around my neck with the necklace. Breathe. Then put the RH cylinder on and route the longhose around my neck and breathe. Am ready to jump! No faff, no worries.




A b'stard of a hill to climb to go diving. Sidemount's so easy in comparison!
View attachment 704566

I've climbed mutliple hilly areas similarly in bm with no issues. It sucks in sm to have to do it twice. Trou Madame cave in france is a prime example. Lots of climbing, crossing a stream of varying depth and ferocity through the year, climbing into a short cave entrance to get to the water. It sucks either way, but I prefer to do the trip once each way.