DIR- GUE Reflections on Fundamentals

[DiveDay]

That said I totally relate with what you say. I had a very love-hate relationship with GUE too. Back in the day of GIIII and the almost nazi like Dutch DIR (frogkick.nl) dudes.

You made me laugh pretty hard with this, thanks, haha.

So in general in my comfort level I'll dive with anybody,

If I'm ever in Europe, I'll call you up on it.

But really, at this point I'm just going to try to focus on making each dive fun, learn things from whoever is willing to teach them, and see if any opportunities come up in the community as more divers show up over time.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Not quite what I was saying. As I took essentials it was a 2 day class (with multiple academic sessions before the class) just like fundies. . . .

It's interesting to me that you don't seem to consider the academic sessions to be class days on equal footing with in-water class days. That's the point I was trying to emphasize. Whether in the water or in a classroom (or via Zoom in the era of Covid), they are all equally days of the Fundies course, as I see it. For me, Fundies was 5 days, most of which were a mix of classroom and in-water. Now that they've broken it into Parts 1 and 2, I'm not sure exactly how it works, but as I see it, in the end it's still all one course, and all parts/days contribute more or less equally to conveying the whole system.

 

[loosenit2]

It's interesting to me that you don't seem to consider the academic sessions to be class days on equal footing with in-water class days. That's the point I was trying to emphasize. Whether in the water or in a classroom (or via Zoom in the era of Covid), they are all equally days of the Fundies course, as I see it. For me, Fundies was 5 days, most of which were a mix of classroom and in-water. Now that they've broken it into Parts 1 and 2, I'm not sure exactly how it works, but as I see it, in the end it's still all one course, and all parts/days contribute more or less equally to conveying the whole system.

Not what I said at all.

 

[barth]

I wouldn't say you are drinking koolaid here. As someone with a toe in the GUE world, I think your comments are factual. The results of GUE courses speak for themselves. If I was staying in OC, I'd continue on the GUE route, at least through T1. But I had started the TDI route for trimix and now CC, so I'm continuing that path.

In the Netherlands a lot of gue divers who did decide to do rebreather training, did choose other agencies for their rebreather training.

One buddy did miss things in his rebreather training (basics and team diving). He decided to do gue ccr1. I know more gue tech divers who regret they didn’t choose Gue for their rebreather training .

Every rebreather has pros and cons. The normal JJ and Gue JJ also have pros and cons.

Maybe there are more differences between instructors with ccr1 training then fundamentals or cave 1 or whatever.

But I think ccr1 is still a great class. After ccr1 it was very easy to do a lot of dives with my oc buddies (also cave and tech) because there is still a lot of standardization.

If I was a gue fundamentals diver, I would do tech1 and ccr1 again. I think AN, DP, mod1 and mod2 or something like that is not cheaper and/or faster. Also the quality of the gue training and possibility to join a gue project is a great.

A lot of things happened and I had a lot of discussions with gue instructors at internet and also at dive sites. But I don’t regret my gue training. If my goal was only cave diving, then I would chose another agency and rebreather. But otherwise I still think gue ccr training is very good training.

Gue ccr1 is like fundamentals with a rebreather…

 

[Lorenzoid]

Not what I said at all.

No, you didn't say that, because if you had said that then I wouldn't have had to ask if that is what you meant. I was trying to understand your statement that Essentials is (or was when you took it) "a 2 day class (with multiple academic sessions before the class) just like fundies. . . . ." Fundies is not a 2-day class.

 

[jadairiii]

....Back in the day of GIIII and t.....

What is so interesting about this, if you ever met the guy on a dive boat or dive site, really nice guy, and extremely helpful. I was on a few dive boats with George, long before I drank the Kool Aid, and he was helpful, would politely ask if you wanted some tips and give them freely. But a total toll on the internet (and sometimes hilariously funny)

 

[loosenit2]

No, you didn't say that, because if you had said that then I wouldn't have had to ask if that is what you meant. I was trying to understand your statement that Essentials is (or was when you took it) "a 2 day class (with multiple academic sessions before the class) just like fundies. . . . ." Fundies is not a 2-day class.

it is interesting that you think you asked me a question, you did not, you made a statement.

in other posts in this thread I pointed out that as I took essentials it was shorter than the typical fundies course, but also that I don’t think it would have made a difference in outcomes at the end of the course.

the point I have made multiple times in this thead is that I think the approach that GUE takes with fundies will likely not work for many/most if their goal is to get a tech pass, more time is needed in between classes to improve. I think the model of class,time for self practice, class, repeat is a model that better matches the reality of how we learn and develop. An opinion that the OP and some others have agreed with In this thread; while others have disagreed, which is a good conversation.

 

[Lorenzoid]

it is interesting that you think you asked me a question, you did not, you made a statement.

in other posts in this thread I pointed out that as I took essentials it was shorter than the typical fundies course, but also that I don’t think it would have made a difference in outcomes at the end of the course.

the point I have made multiple times in this thead is that I think the approach that GUE takes with fundies will likely not work for many/most if their goal is to get a tech pass, more time is needed in between classes to improve. I think the model of class,time for self practice, class, repeat is a model that better matches the reality of how we learn and develop. An opinion that the OP and some others have agreed with In this thread; while others have disagreed, which is a good conversation.

Thanks. You're right that I should have prefaced my "statement" with something like, "If I understood you correctly ...." Sorry. I have been following the thread closely, including your comments, and I agree wholeheartedly about the need for self-practice interspersed with instruction (a course and/or coaching sessions). I mentioned in several comments upthread that's how I myself went about it. For me, it involved days of practice post-Fundies before achieving a rec pass, and then years of practice interspersed with coaching sessions before achieving a tech pass.

 

[jadairiii]

... I think the approach that GUE takes with fundies will likely not work for many/most if their goal is to get a tech pass, more time is needed in between classes to improve. .....

Been a while since I looked at the standards, but, I believe that the normal progression is to take fundies, get your rec pass, dive at least 25 dives before you move up to attempt a tech pass. Which should give you the time necessary.

That said, I personally believe many attempt the tech pass right away which dooms them.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Can we all at least agree that having clear, rigorous standards

In the Netherlands a lot of gue divers who did decide to do rebreather training, did choose other agencies for their rebreather training.

One buddy did miss things in his rebreather training (basics and team diving). He decided to do gue ccr1. I know more gue tech divers who regret they didn’t choose Gue for their rebreather training .

Every rebreather has pros and cons. The normal JJ and Gue JJ also have pros and cons.

Maybe there are more differences between instructors with ccr1 training then fundamentals or cave 1 or whatever.

But I think ccr1 is still a great class. After ccr1 it was very easy to do a lot of dives with my oc buddies (also cave and tech) because there is still a lot of standardization.

If I was a gue fundamentals diver, I would do tech1 and ccr1 again. I think AN, DP, mod1 and mod2 or something like that is not cheaper and/or faster. Also the quality of the gue training and possibility to join a gue project is a great.

A lot of things happened and I had a lot of discussions with gue instructors at internet and also at dive sites. But I don’t regret my gue training. If my goal was only cave diving, then I would chose another agency and rebreather. But otherwise I still think gue ccr training is very good training.

Gue ccr1 is like fundamentals with a rebreather…

That's completely fair, and I agree. But I have an usual case. I'm working on some filming projects in the Aegean, one that would include one of the Cousteaus. Since he dives a Prism 2, that's what I have to dive, as he said "we can't look like a bunch of guys." Remember the red beannies.

I think my best option going forward is to have workshops with a GUE CCR instructor to put me through the paces. No certification, just working on skills. Not sure if that is possible/allowed, but if I don't ask, the answer is always no.