Looking to Buy a Rebreather

[rddvet]

Really appreciate the feedback! James Draker gave me a lot of this. Very impressed with him! Still trying to figure out which one. XCCR is on the radar.....

XCCR s a great unit and I would highly consider it. It's just very priicey. Other units to consiider are the JJ and the fathom. Both can easily be set up with onboard 50s or 40s as the dil/bailout. If you're diving off of boats, being able to rig a unit iin the "gue configuration" (I hate that term because it's polarizing to some) iis very conveniient. Especially if you're doing trimix dives. You can backmount your mani dil/bailout and then carry appropriate bottom mixes wiithout having a ton of stages (since 2 are on your back). I'm sure you can probably do the same with the xccr, but I haven't seen it yet. The JJ, XCCR, and Fathom are going to be in a much different class than the Kiss units.
Big drawback to the JJ is it's heavy so sucks to travel with and the head design leaves it suspceptible to being stuck close due to sand. XCCR I have no idea how it travels. My fathom fiits in a carry on bag easily, minus the backplate. My wife can fit hers and her small siized backplate.

 

[rddvet]

I suggest that a mCCR with a leaky valve is the superior design. It is sort of "auto" in its way in that O2 is always flowing until the tank is empty, which may take 5+ hours from a full tank. It is very difficult to actually get to hypoxic mix on an mCCR. Beyond that there are few failure points in the system and no opportunity to build the bad habits of not managing your loop and letting the computer fly you into danger.

Thiis is not accurate, as others have noted. Even more importantly, an mccr with a needle valve blows an mccr without one out of the water

 

[davehicks]

Thiis is not accurate, as others have noted. Even more importantly, an mccr with a needle valve blows an mccr without one out of the water

I have 15 years of experience that tells me it is accurate. I didn't say impossible. The combo of a constant flow of O2 and the diligence acquired and required for mCCR operation it takes some serious negligence to get your PPO2 so low as to be a problem.

I've not used a needle valve before. I believe it's a more dynamically adjustable constant flow orifice? I can see how that would be nice to have for some situations involving heavier workloads or deeper dives.

 

[tbone1004]

XCCR s a great unit and I would highly consider it. It's just very priicey. Other units to consiider are the JJ and the fathom. Both can easily be set up with onboard 50s or 40s as the dil/bailout. If you're diving off of boats, being able to rig a unit iin the "gue configuration" (I hate that term because it's polarizing to some) iis very conveniient. Especially if you're doing trimix dives. You can backmount your mani dil/bailout and then carry appropriate bottom mixes wiithout having a ton of stages (since 2 are on your back). I'm sure you can probably do the same with the xccr, but I haven't seen it yet. The JJ, XCCR, and Fathom are going to be in a much different class than the Kiss units.
Big drawback to the JJ is it's heavy so sucks to travel with and the head design leaves it suspceptible to being stuck close due to sand. XCCR I have no idea how it travels. My fathom fiits in a carry on bag easily, minus the backplate. My wife can fit hers and her small siized backplate.

since the Fathom is just an iteration of the Meg in mCCR form with weedwhacker line instead of latches, and the XCCR is also an iteration of the Meg with fancier electronics and cam locks instead of latches, you can just as easily configure it like you would with the Fathom or the Meg. All 3 will travel about the same.
Not sure what pricing on the Fathom is doing these days since there is no price list, but the XCCR is actually about $10k ready to dive which is pretty reasonable. That's with no secondary ppO2 monitor other than blinky HUD, so it's the same as a Fathom would be. Since they use the same scrubbers, lungs, and loop *yes they're actually interchangeable using IQ Sub bayonets and Meg style scrubbers*, it would have to be a really steep discount to look at the Fathom for me, but I prefer eCCR

 

[rddvet]

I have 15 years of experience that tells me it is accurate. I didn't say impossible. The combo of a constant flow of O2 and the diligence acquired and required for mCCR operation it takes some serious negligence to get your PPO2 so low as to be a problem.

I've not used a needle valve before. I believe it's a more dynamically adjustable constant flow orifice? I can see how that would be nice to have for some situations involving heavier workloads or deeper dives.

I don’t disagree with your points and I definitely prefer mccr. But in essence you were saying a leaky valve is safer than having the parachute of an eccr. Unless I’m misunderstanding

since the Fathom is just an iteration of the Meg in mCCR form with weedwhacker line instead of latches, and the XCCR is also an iteration of the Meg with fancier electronics and cam locks instead of latches, you can just as easily configure it like you would with the Fathom or the Meg. All 3 will travel about the same.
Not sure what pricing on the Fathom is doing these days since there is no price list, but the XCCR is actually about $10k ready to dive which is pretty reasonable. That's with no secondary ppO2 monitor other than blinky HUD, so it's the same as a Fathom would be. Since they use the same scrubbers, lungs, and loop *yes they're actually interchangeable using IQ Sub bayonets and Meg style scrubbers*, it would have to be a really steep discount to look at the Fathom for me, but I prefer eCCR

the fathom is definitely a ripoff of many aspects of the Meg. I believe the fathom as stock is about $7800. I could be wrong and will have to look to confirm. I added things such as the bov which brought the price up some. I actually ruled out the Meg in my initial search of units due to the chest mounted lungs (which I now know can easily be changed) and the simple fact that you can’t easily get info on the updates to the Meg from their Website. Looking at the Meg site to me is like looking at the silent submerge website. All the info is old and not up to date and really is just off putting. It’s likely a dumb reason to rule a unit out, but if they can’t pay somebody to update their website, it doesn’t garner confidence about the rest of the company.

 

[rjack321]

I consider the XCCR, Meg, JJ and Fathom functionally similar - some emphasizing one attribute over another. The build quality varies a bit between A+ and A- but all are markedly ahead of a kiss (coming in around C to B- depending on the unit and model IMO) in terms of design, objective testing, and build quality.

 

[rjack321]

I don’t disagree with your points and I definitely prefer mccr. But in essence you were saying a leaky valve is safer than having the parachute of an eccr. Unless I’m misunderstanding


the fathom is definitely a ripoff of many aspects of the Meg. I believe the fathom as stock is about $7800. I could be wrong and will have to look to confirm. I added things such as the bov which brought the price up some. I actually ruled out the Meg in my initial search of units due to the chest mounted lungs (which I now know can easily be changed) and the simple fact that you can’t easily get info on the updates to the Meg from their Website. Looking at the Meg site to me is like looking at the silent submerge website. All the info is old and not up to date and really is just off putting. It’s likely a dumb reason to rule a unit out, but if they can’t pay somebody to update their website, it doesn’t garner confidence about the rest of the company.

If you prefer mCCR, BM CLs, and dil/bo with LP50s then the Meg is not the unit for you anyway.

 

[tbone1004]

I don’t disagree with your points and I definitely prefer mccr. But in essence you were saying a leaky valve is safer than having the parachute of an eccr. Unless I’m misunderstanding


the fathom is definitely a ripoff of many aspects of the Meg. I believe the fathom as stock is about $7800. I could be wrong and will have to look to confirm. I added things such as the bov which brought the price up some. I actually ruled out the Meg in my initial search of units due to the chest mounted lungs (which I now know can easily be changed) and the simple fact that you can’t easily get info on the updates to the Meg from their Website. Looking at the Meg site to me is like looking at the silent submerge website. All the info is old and not up to date and really is just off putting. It’s likely a dumb reason to rule a unit out, but if they can’t pay somebody to update their website, it doesn’t garner confidence about the rest of the company.

I don't disagree, but thankfully the company is turning a new leaf these days with Jason kicking their butt into the 21st century....

If you prefer mCCR, BM CLs, and dil/bo with LP50s then the Meg is not the unit for you anyway.

configuring the bailout like the Fathom is a very easy swap and you can order the Meg without bottles without issue. No way around mCCR on a new Meg, though I wouldn't go out of my way to choose an mCCR but that's personal preference. BMCL has to be done third party unfortunately as well. Alas, no rebreather is perfect...

 

[rjack321]

configuring the bailout like the Fathom is a very easy swap and you can order the Meg without bottles without issue. No way around mCCR on a new Meg, though I wouldn't go out of my way to choose an mCCR but that's personal preference. BMCL has to be done third party unfortunately as well. Alas, no rebreather is perfect...

The normal "shadow" tank mounts on the Meg are not rated for lp50s. Max size is "supposedly" lp45s. It still seems like a lot of leverage on the mounts to me. You can of course add a different tank bracket to the side of the can (like the iqsub ones) but seems like a silly kludge move when you can just get a different unit more suited for large dil/bo tanks (and BM CLs) in the first place.

So unless you really really like the Meg head and scrubber design, there are better choices. Compared to the sidewinder in which case almost everything is a better choice unless you have a very narrow set of priorities

 

[rddvet]

I don't disagree, but thankfully the company is turning a new leaf these days with Jason kicking their butt into the 21st century....
...

Are you talking about Jason Black? If so, that doesn't add confidence. Dude seems to jump from company to company on a whim. At least that's how it looks from an outdsider's persepective combined with the gossip I hear about him.