Is a Pony Bottle too complicated for a beginner?

[MaxTorque]

Mosquito rediscovered 60 years after crash

See above news article. People do this dive on a pony / stage bottle and a single reg and stones for dive weights. The reason being its about 2500 ft above sea level and too far to walk carrying full dive kit. Some even snorkel / free dive a few bits of the tarn.

I know it's totally semantics, but they are not doing the dive on a "pony" really, they are just doing it on a small capacity primary tank ;-)

 

[CT-Rich]

I know it's totally semantics, but they are not doing the dive on a "pony" really, they are just doing it on a small capacity primary tank ;-)

It’s not really semantics, how you gas plan determines whether it is a primary, pony or stage. If you have an 80 AL tank, you need to factor in a reserve to either air share or get to the surface safely when things go sideways. If you have a 20 ft3 pony, the reserve is in the pony. If you are using it as a stage bottle, you need to figure in a safe reserve for your primary gas to ascend and enough safety for whatever obligation you will fulfill with the stage bottle. If you are just dicking around the shallows you are opting to rely on the big air reserved above.

A pony is reserve gas you are not planning on using and would be willing to share. A stage bottle is air you are planning to use and may be your ticket home and sharing is not an option. Heck, it may not even safe to breath a depth. How you are going to use it is more important than how it is mounted.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Thanks for this post. It's about the only time someone who disagrees with my use of a "pony bottle" to extend my dives wrote anything that actually makes sense.



Yes. No. Nothing wrong with my style of diving- or at least not one single fellow diver has given a valid reason why it isn't other than "you're not supposed to do it that way".



@Jim Lapenta Your post makes no sense. A diver can go into DECO on deeper dives even when using only a single AL80. This has nothing to do with using a Pony to extend a dive, it's about properly monitoring gauges and bottom time and responsible diving, nothing more. As I've explained MANY times there's no reason to "pretend you don't have a full extra tank" if you've actually GOT a full extra tank.

Unless you agree with the others who say that by simply "calling a pony a stage bottle then it's ok to use it to extend a dive"

Just out of curiosity, what tech diver/instructor ratings do you have and how many gas management sessions have you taught to new divers?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Thanks for this post. It's about the only time someone who disagrees with my use of a "pony bottle" to extend my dives wrote anything that actually makes sense.

Yes. No. Nothing wrong with my style of diving- or at least not one single fellow diver has given a valid reason why it isn't other than "you're not supposed to do it that way".

Has the possibility of catastrophic gas loss at depth ever crossed your mind?

Do you have any idea how much gas you need to reach the surface while stressed?

You can't rely on your buddy always, as buddy separations do happen.

So what do you do then?

 

[Seville]

To save space, should i get rid of my octo on my 80 tank and just have the octo on the pony tank? I think having 3 2nd stages may be a but much.

 

[-JD-]

To save space, should i get rid of my octo on my 80 tank and just have the octo on the pony tank? I think having 3 2nd stages may be a but much.

I dive with the Pony cylinder slung (left side - stage-style) and the regulator is stowed under the elastic bands, on the bottle.
My main tank has 2 second stages (I have been diving primary donate - necklaced secondary, but with Covid continuing, I'll probably go back to a stowed "octo" for diving where I might be interacting with random divers. )

Why:
1) Supplying air to another in an emergency is "standard" (hand-off Octo or hand-off primary and switch to necklaced secondary). Reaching down to deploy my pony reg with a panicked diver in my face seems sub-optimal as a planned procedure.
2) If for some reason, I splash without a redundant airsource, I have a full regset without needing to reconfigure. (It does sometimes happen ex: problem getting the pony filled at the beginning of travel or I'm the rescue class "victim" and having the student need to deal with unusual kit {pony} during gear removal is a distraction).
3) Donning and doffing simply means clipping the bottle on/off and the reg just stays stowed for the day. I don't need to route the hose and attach the reg somewhere when getting in.
4) If I get finned in the face or mugged for my regs, I have a theoretically undisturbed place to go for air.

 

[gamon]

Just out of curiosity, what tech diver/instructor ratings do you have and how many gas management sessions have you taught to new divers?

Pfft, typical deflection by making the debate about the adversary's credentials rather than the facts being discussed.

 

[gamon]

Has the possibility of catastrophic gas loss at depth ever crossed your mind?

Do you have any idea how much gas you need to reach the surface while stressed?

You can't rely on your buddy always, as buddy separations do happen.

So what do you do then?

I am in considerably better shape with an extra 30cf of gas in a separate independent tank than your typical AL80 diver, whether I have a buddy or not.

End of story

 

[Angelo Farina]

To save space, should i get rid of my octo on my 80 tank and just have the octo on the pony tank? I think having 3 2nd stages may be a but much.

No, in my opinion. The main tank must always be equipped with an alternate air source, properly placed so it is easily available when needed.
The pony tank instead usually has another reg, fixed to the tank with rubber bands, and not so easy and fast to deploy.
If you want to be more streamlined, you could consider an alternate air source integrated with your BCD inflator, such as the Air2. But this requires to configure the primary with a longer-than-normal hose, as it will be donated to your buddy in case of need, while you switch to your alternate air source (AIR2 or the like). You cannot donate an AIR2...
Donating the pony tank is not advisable as first choice. It is an additional option, of course, if donating the alternative reg or the primary is unfeasible. But it does not replace the need for a standard secondary air source on the main tank. You would end up with a setup which is generally worst than the standard setup with just the main tank with 2 regs. You can add something to that standard basic configuration, but you cannot remove one of the two regs...

 

[Bob DBF]

To save space, should i get rid of my octo on my 80 tank and just have the octo on the pony tank? I think having 3 2nd stages may be a but

Actually when I first heard of a pony, it was one of the alternatives to the new idea of adding an additional second stage to one's primary, as a safety feature. This was back in 1980 when I finally got a C-card, part of a NAUI/PADI OW class in the PADI text. The class still included buddy breathing, but covered the concept of a safe second. I picked one up in the following year, or so.