If you could change one thing about dive training...

[Wookie]

but often students don't even know there is a problem because they are students.

And this is what allows bad instructors to keep instructing.

 

[mc42]

If not make rescue diver obligatory, at least include primary elements of it in OW and AOW.

It was announced at our PADI professionals webinar yesterday that there will be a new AOW elective dive which will be a Rescue Dive that incorporates several of the skills from the full Rescue course. If I recall correctly, they were self-rescue, tired diver, panicked diver, and searching for missing diver.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Currently the industry relies on students reporting problems to the agency, but often students don't even know there is a problem because they are students.

This I definitely agree. My open water course was so full of standards violations, it wasn't even funny. But spot checks are problematic. And expensive. I think it makes more sense to ensure the new instructor has a solid foundation. But that will increase costs, and no one wants that.

Sorry, but cannot agree with this. Have been teaching scuba for 50 years now and initially had doubts about on line academic training . All that has changed as I find students better prepared for class and they consistently get better grades on final exam. Online eLearning fills gaps that may be caused by poorly done instructor led presentations. Any questions student has can be addressed at any time or during review of quick review exam.

I've taught under a few agencies, and there is one in particular, SSI, where I was amazed as to how well prepared the students were and how well they understood dive theory. When teaching SSI open water courses, I really didn't have to teach academics like I had to in the past. I could focus more on dive planning that resulted in my dive planning doc.

Given I was that instructor and it was MY choice, it's a mute point (rant)

And if you are the dive center owner, such a "gimme" is often beneficial with the reviews and recommendations you'd get from that customer.

And if you were the dive center owner and you assigned this person to one of your employees, I'm pretty sure you'd compensate them accordingly. Compensation does vary worldwide. There's some mix of all/part/none of commissions, completed certifications, and hourly wages. Personally, I believe in hourly wages with bonuses for comissions. I don't think it is fair to pay based on completed certifications as that gives instructors an incentive to be a mill. More certs, more money, with a risk of creating divers who don't meet performance requirements.

 

[oly5050user]

It was announced at our PADI professionals webinar yesterday that there will be a new AOW elective dive which will be a Rescue Dive that incorporates several of the skills from the full Rescue course. If I recall correctly, they were self-rescue, tired diver, panicked diver, and searching for missing diver.

Many of skills you mention are already included in a open water class. Self rescue.. CESA...tired diver tow is done during confined water and again during training dives.. missing diver addressed in eLearning and as a question in quick review exam

 

[kmarks]

Currently the industry relies on students reporting problems to the agency, but often students don't even know there is a problem because they are students.

I can't speak for other agencies, by SSI sends out a survey to all students following their classes in order to get feedback, but it is also used as a sneaky way to catch standards violations. They don't straight up ask "Did your instructor violate our standards?" because students would have no clue, but there are questions about how many students were in the class with you, how many instructors there were, how deep you went during the check out dives, etc., so they can find out if standards were violated. Sure, some students have terrible memories or are just terrible at answering surveys, but instructors also have to keep training records so if a student says that he went to 180 feet on his check out dive, the shop can look up the training record that was filled out by the instructor at the time of the dive and say "Nope, it says they went to 18 feet. Also, that quarry is only 22 feet deep."

 

[kelemvor]

I can't speak for other agencies, by SSI sends out a survey to all students following their classes in order to get feedback, but it is also used as a sneaky way to catch standards violations. They don't straight up ask "Did your instructor violate our standards?" because students would have no clue, but there are questions about how many students were in the class with you, how many instructors there were, how deep you went during the check out dives, etc., so they can find out if standards were violated. Sure, some students have terrible memories or are just terrible at answering surveys, but instructors also have to keep training records so if a student says that he went to 180 feet on his check out dive, the shop can look up the training record that was filled out by the instructor at the time of the dive and say "Nope, it says they went to 18 feet. Also, that quarry is only 22 feet deep."

I was thinking more along the lines of having a "secret shopper" type student once a quarter or at least once a year. Perhaps a simple non-secret observation program - although that is far less effective as the instructor can simply do it right during the observed class.

I think many agencies have post-class surveys but that's only going to catch a few types of violations some of the time. Depth or teacher/student ratios are probably the most benign type of violations.

At a minimum, doing what you're already doing is not going to cause an improvement.

 

[Blackcrusader]

My only gripe is that my BSAC instructor taught us how to vomit through our regs, control the situation and clear gunk and bile before switching to secondary before flushing the primary.

This is not taught by many instructors and I know there have been cases of drowned divers who panicked when they had to vomit.
I was given Syrup of Ipecac and it made you do the chuck chunder and we did this in the water. I will tell new certified divers I who buddy up with me how to deal with it. Some of them even get to see me do it.

 

[kelemvor]

My only gripe is that my BSAC instructor taught us how to vomit through our regs, control the situation and clear gunk and bile before switching to secondary before flushing the primary.

This is not taught by many instructors and I know there have been cases of drowned divers who panicked when they had to vomit.
I was given Syrup of Ipecac and it made you do the chuck chunder and we did this in the water. I will tell new certified divers I who buddy up with me how to deal with it. Some of them even get to see me do it.

That must have been a while ago. Syrup of Ipecac was discontinued by the last manufacturer who made it in 2010. I looked for some in stores a few years ago. When I didn't find any, i searched and found that tidbit of information.

Our instructor told us about upchucking through the reg but didn't actually make us do it. Same for emergency ascent from 60' and a few other things that are good to know about but too dangerous to try in class.

 

[Blackcrusader]

That must have been a while ago. Syrup of Ipecac was discontinued by the last manufacturer who made it in 2010. I looked for some in stores a few years ago. When I didn't find any, i searched and found that tidbit of information.

Our instructor told us about upchucking through the reg but didn't actually make us do it. Same for emergency ascent from 60' and a few other things that are good to know about but too dangerous to try in class.

July 1986 I believe it was. Doing it in real life rather than just knowing about it made me feel far safer when I had to vomit on a dive.
I believe it should be trained for and done not just be told about it. There have been times when divers are sick on the boat going to or back from a dive sight and I tell them it's a good time to practice doing it. They look at me in sheer horror and tell me what a disgusting thing to bring up. You could always bring some stinky fried tofu that will set off a lot of people.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Our instructor told us about upchucking through the reg but didn't actually make us do it. Same for emergency ascent from 60' and a few other things that are good to know about but too dangerous to try in class.

Like ripping regs out of the mouths of students, there are a host of unsafe practices that no agency would approve nor any sane instructor would even consider. Unfortunately there is a lot of insanity that flies under the radar.